Diesel debate... more gallons of rug from crude? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bennett · #1 11-01-2005, 11:53 PM

I am in the middle of a debate with a freind who thinks he knows it all about the problem with diesel costing so much more.
He says that refineries can make more regular-unleaded-gas than diesel using the same amount of crude oil.
I say BS.... just wondered if there is any truth to it?
He says if they bypass the first and second cut of crude ( for diesel and korsene) they can make more rug???

Price hasn't dropped here in Utah... paid $3.19 a gallon yesterday

PagodaLover · #2 11-01-2005, 11:59 PM

I believe you are right.

iNeon · #3 11-02-2005, 12:20 AM

im no expert, but isnt diesel akin to the cream and gasoline to the milk?

i'd bet he's right. i have only met one diesel person that knew nothing of their engine-- the chair of the art department at montevallo university.

its a duramax though. kinda like a rattly tahoe with no bed cover

BodhiBenz1987 · #4 11-02-2005, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iNeon

im no expert, but isnt diesel akin to the cream and gasoline to the milk?

i'd bet he's right. i have only met one diesel person that knew nothing of their engine-- the chair of the art department at montevallo university.

its a duramax though. kinda like a rattly tahoe with no bed cover

I always thought it was more diesel is to gas as molasses is to sugar?

pawoSD · #5 11-02-2005, 12:28 AM

I've read that the way refineries *should* be set up is to easily produce more diesel than gas, since it needs more refining, but that refineries in the USA are set up to produce a lot more gasoline than diesel, thats the only reason. They could retool/configure them to make way more diesel, but they don't.

BodhiBenz1987 · #6 11-02-2005, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

I've read that the way refineries *should* be set up is to easily produce more diesel than gas, since it needs more refining, but that refineries in the USA are set up to produce a lot more gasoline than diesel, thats the only reason. They could retool/configure them to make way more diesel, but they don't.

From what I understand at this point (English major, so this is not highly technical), they basically can control the ratio of what they get out of crude oil because the diesel product can be further refined into gasoline via cracking the larger hydrocarbons chains into smaller ones. Thus, if the demand for gas is higher, they devote a higher proportion of the crude product to a final product of gasoline. On the other end of it is the oils used to make plastics, which most people don't even think about when they think of the impact of oil shortages ... and of course you've got to get the heating oil (which I honestly can't remember if that's more or less refined than diesel). It's like pulling ten pounds of you-know-what out of a five-pound bag, to paraphrase an old saying ...

andmoon · #7 11-02-2005, 05:34 AM

Is it 55 or 60 gallons to a barrel? How much fuel can be made from a barrel?

MS Fowler · #8 11-02-2005, 05:36 AM

In the past, it was cheaper to make diesel because it came out lower in the refining process, taking less time and energy than gasoline. Now, with all the additives to gasoline and diesel, its anybody's guess as to the true relative costs of the products.

Jim H · #9 11-02-2005, 07:02 AM

Diesel and home heating oil are quite similar. One barrel of oil will yield only so many gallons of final processed fuels.

As we approach the winter heating season, the refineries have to decide whether to produce more Diesel #2 or heating oil from the same barrel, since they can't run any more barrels through in a day...

It's an econmic thing, like Guns or Butter.

BobK · #10 11-02-2005, 07:45 AM

42 gallons of crude oil per barrel. With modern refining, they can move the ratios around quite a bit. Demand in this country excedes refining capacity right now so we wind up importing refined product. Mostly RUG coming in over the border from what I understand. Diesel prices are real hard to explain except that world diesel demand is higher than it has ever been before now. Ultra-low sulfer diesel will be more expensive to produce. Stockpiling of #2 heating oil of course puts a strain on US supply lines, but nobody wants to run out of heating oil. A real warm winter of course could change things. If prices seem kinda wierd around you, it may be the local distributors trying to maximize profit. Some of them are running a real monopoly and they have some nasty suprizes coming. A bunch of attorneys general are running investigations right now. Real easy way to make the jump to governor is to make a name for yourself on that kind of investigation. Fuel markets are pretty wierd on their own and not many can forecast well. Bunch of people making more money than us are getting paid to try and a lot of them are getting it wrong.

Wes Bender · #11 11-02-2005, 09:42 AM

I'm not an expert, but I have always been under the impression that it takes more crude to get a gallon of diesel than it takes to get a gallon of gasoline. If that is the case, then it also follows that there is more energy available in a gallon of diesel than in a gallon of gasoline.

How about hearing from one of you oil industry experts on this topic?

jcyuhn · #12 11-02-2005, 10:00 AM

Well, a gallon of diesel does contain more energy than a gallon of gasoline. That's one of the main reasons why diesel cars get better MPG - it's not a fair contest!

From a quick Google search, diesel seems to run in the range of 130K - 140K BTU/gallon. Gasoline is in the vicinity of 115K BTU/gallon. Both fuels vary a bit, depending on the quality of the diesel and the quantity of additives in the gasoline. For example, oxygenated (winter) gasoline has lower BTU/gallon because some of the fuel (hydrocarbons) are displaced by the oxygenate (MTBE, etc.).

- JimY

boneheaddoctor · #13 11-02-2005, 10:05 AM

Diesel is a heavier distalate...gasolene is a light distilate...

You need light sweet crude to get a decent yield from a barrel of crude...

You can get diesel out of the heavy sour crude...

Diesel has more BTU's becasue its a heavy distilate....Bunker oil has even more...

You get more diesel out of a barrel but ultimately the exact amount is determined by what they want to focus on...

SD Blue · #14 11-02-2005, 10:22 AM

JimH hit the nail on the head. Liquid in pretty much results in liquid out. It all depends on the demand as to what amount of the barrel is refined into diesel or gasoline.

At the other end, ie... the pump, it depends on what they have pay the fuel distributor (base-line cost) and what they charge (market demand) for profit margin. Both of which are constantly varying lines at the moment.

Frankenbenz · #15 11-02-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

From what I understand at this point (English major, so this is not highly technical), they basically can control the ratio of what they get out of crude oil because the diesel product can be further refined into gasoline via cracking the larger hydrocarbons chains into smaller ones. Thus, if the demand for gas is higher, they devote a higher proportion of the crude product to a final product of gasoline. On the other end of it is the oils used to make plastics, which most people don't even think about when they think of the impact of oil shortages ... and of course you've got to get the heating oil (which I honestly can't remember if that's more or less refined than diesel). It's like pulling ten pounds of you-know-what out of a five-pound bag, to paraphrase an old saying ...

I think BodhiBenz1987 is right. This is how it was explained to me by my uncle that worked for Amoco. Strait distillation yields more diesel than gasoline; however with the newer processes (cracking catalysts) they can make what ever they want. It's just a matter of how long you want the hydrocarbon chain.