Good Idea, or not?

[Chopperguy7307]

I've been reading up about Intercooling the 617 and have made a realization, All we are trying to accomplish is lower intake temps and more fuel. So, what if a mixture of CO2 and Propane were injected into the intake post-turbo in a power producing ratio. That would cool and add more fuel at the same time. Ok, flame suit on.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by Chopperguy7307

I've been reading up about Intercooling the 617 and have made a realization, All we are trying to accomplish is lower intake temps and more fuel. So, what if a mixture of CO2 and Propane were injected into the intake post-turbo in a power producing ratio. That would cool and add more fuel at the same time. Ok, flame suit on.

CO2 will inhibit combustion adding to EGT...

[leathermang]

CO2 will inhibit combustion decreasing the EGT...and the power.... which was supposed to be the reason for intercooling in the first place.

[P.E.Haiges]

Chopper,

Bonehead has it backwards.

Adding CO2 is about the same as what the EGR valve does which decreases exhaust temperatures to decrease nitrous exide emissions and decreases power too.

The idea of intercooling is to make the intake air more dense so there is more oxygen in the cylinder to burn more fuel and create more power and efficiency.

P E H

Originally Posted by P.E.Haiges

Adding CO2 is about the same as what the EGR valve does which decreases exhaust temperatures to decrease nitrous exide emissions and decreases power too.

CO2 and NOx are inversely related. CO2 goes up, NOx goes down. NOx goes up, CO2 goes down.

[t walgamuth]

the answer but it sure appears that the highly technical previous posts didn't answer it either.

tom w

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by P.E.Haiges

Chopper,

Bonehead has it backwards.

Adding CO2 is about the same as what the EGR valve does which decreases exhaust temperatures to decrease nitrous exide emissions and decreases power too.

The idea of intercooling is to make the intake air more dense so there is more oxygen in the cylinder to burn more fuel and create more power and efficiency.

P E H

I don't think I had it backwards....and this is why...

You are going to have the same amount of fuel either way...if you introduce CO2 (into the intake as he initially said) which will not combust you are displacing oxegen...

If you displace oxegen when your fuel remains the same you are in effect making for a rich condition which on a diesel increaces EGT....on a gasser it would do the exact opposite.

However as I have seen quoted some drag races spray the intercoolers externally to increace their efficiency ...but this is under high boost conditions for short 1/8 or 1/4 mile bursts.....

Not workible for daily long term use.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by leathermang

CO2 will inhibit combustion decreasing the EGT...and the power.... which was supposed to be the reason for intercooling in the first place.

You sure about that?...more CO2 = less oxegen therefore making for incomplete burn causing a HOTTER exhaust.......effectively causing an overfueled condition...

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

You sure about that?...more CO2 = less oxegen therefore making for incomplete burn causing a HOTTER exhaust.......effectively causing an overfueled condition...

I believe adding CO2 would reduce EGT. My logic is that adding CO2, in place of O2, would not cause more fuel to be introduced (which could increase EGT), it will result in the same amount of fuel being burned (incompletely) with less O2. That will not increase the amount of energy, it will stay the same or be reduced, because each pound of fuel contains a fixed amount of available energy. In addition, the additional CO2 will absorb some of the combustion energy, reducing the EGT. If you added CO2 (for whatever reason) and re-tuned the engine for complete combustion, you would certainly reduce both power and EGT, just like the EGR is designed to do.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by Craig

I believe adding CO2 would reduce EGT. My logic is that adding CO2, in place of O2, would not cause more fuel to be introduced (which could increase EGT), it will result in the same amount of fuel being burned (incompletely) with less O2. That will not increase the amount of energy, it will stay the same or be reduced, because each pound of fuel contains a fixed amount of available energy. In addition, the additional CO2 will absorb some of the combustion energy, reducing the EGT. If you added CO2 (for whatever reason) and re-tuned the engine for complete combustion, you would certainly reduce both power and EGT, just like the EGR is designed to do.

How would it cause less fuel to be introduced? These OM617s are not computer controlled and will have exactly the same amount of fuel introduced based on pressure sensed at the intake manifold...its purely mechanical.

And if that has a lower oxegen content then your EGT is going to climb....these have no feedback loop to control it via an O2 sensor like a EFI gasser.