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#1
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Help Need Answer To Injection Pump Timing 603 Engine!!!!
Okay for the last 3 days I have had no luck starting my 87 300TD.
If my injection pump timing is way off would this cause the car not to start??? When I took the head off I could not get the pins out that hold the upper guide rail on. So when I reassembled I attached the new timing chain to the old and ran it through and had a helper hold tension and fed it through the IP ect. I also have puddles of diesel fuel sitting in my injectors(I pulled off the lines to make sure I am getting fuel) Is this normal or do my injectors need to be rebuilt??? |
#2
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Hey George, the timing on the OM603 is easy to check. There is a small cover that looks like a bolt on the side of the IP. If you remove it you should be able to see a 'V' in the middle of the hole if the crank and IP are at the specified timing point (make sure first two cam lobes point up).
I don't know what you mean by puddles in your injectors. You mean the place where the two halves meet? It could be because you have disconnected the injector lines, or the two halves are loose and need to be tightened, or your injector return hoses are leaking.
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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
#3
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Thanks for your reply. I took off the 17mm bolt to access the IP timing. I am positive that it is way off.
I moved the crank to 15 degrees AFTDC and there was no V. I know you need to lock down the IP with the metal dowel tool. How do you adjust after it is locked down. Do I need to take the timing cover off and then adjust the sprocket to the IP??? Not very sure how to bring back into timing. The car cranks but will not ignite. Glow plugs are checked. And new head was installed so compression should be up to snuff. |
#4
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So are you getting fuel from the injectors? It sounded like you are but I wasn't sure.
Make sure the cam lobes point up as I said when you check the timing. The IP goes through only half a rotation for every full rotation of the crank. If you have a mirror you can eyeball the position of the V and get within 2 degrees if you're meticulous. Otherwise use the IP lock tool or the more expensive tool from MB (do a search for more info). If necessary, timing is adjusted by loosening the IP holding bolts and rotating the IP away or toward the engine.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
#5
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Thanks for your reply. I am getting fuel to the injectors.
The timing is off. Would this create the car not to start??????? Where is the timing suppose to be. And how exactly do you set it. I unbolt the IP and turn toward and away from the engine??? Obviously I have never done this before so I need all the advice I can get. |
#6
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Quote:
Also how would rolling on a new chain effect the timing. If anything it should bring it back in line. Unless someone messed with it instead of replacing the chain or adding a woodruff key. Do you know for sure there is no offset wodruff key installed? Quote:
You can look for that V that was mentioned or you can use the drip method. All the on-line manuals show how to do this. Danny
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1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles OBK member #23 (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination Last edited by dannym; 12-02-2005 at 04:12 PM. |
#7
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No from everything I have read it needs to be 15deg ATDC
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#8
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If your using the drip method the crank is set at 24deg BTDC or 23-25deg per manual.
If your using the factory timing/holding tool the crank is set at 15 deg ATDC minus chain stretch. Per manual. This would also be the way you would do it if your looking for that elusive V. Sorry if I caused any confusion. Danny EDIT: Personally I have never seen a V nor have I had any luck with the timing/holding tool. The drip method is somewhat imprecise. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=122866 http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=118249 You would be much better off finding someone with an A-B timing light.
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1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles OBK member #23 (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination Last edited by dannym; 12-02-2005 at 04:37 PM. |
#9
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Danny,
Thanks for the info. It is tough to see the V through the access hole. There seems to be oil that is in the way. If the Timing for the IP is off would this be a good source for why the damn thing has not started?????????????????????????????????/ |
#10
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Messed up timing would definitely mess up your starting ability. The question is why would it be messed up in the first place? You should know that better than any one of us. Maybe you just have air in the fuel system and you need to keep purging it.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
#11
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I believe the timing of the IP got messed up when I installed the timing chain.
When I took off the head I could not get the guide pins out. So I took the chain off of the sprocket and grinded the chain link off and of course covered the timing chain cover to protect from metal filings getting into case. When I installed the new timing chain I connected to old and pulled through without on cam sprocket and pulled back on timing chain to engage IP tensioner and used crank to feed through new one. Needless to say the IP pulled and I am sure this is what threw off the timing of the IP. Hope this makes sense. |
#12
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Most good compression diesels will start and run with the pump even way off. They rattle and hammer like there is no tomorrow and take about half throttle to keep running. Usually they are very difficult to get to fire but once firing they will preignite the fuel left in the cylinder from the wrongly timed squirt. Try glowing it several times and holding it half throttle. If it cranks and runs like described you can call it a safe bet the timing's off. If the timing's off you're looking at an inj. pump R&R.
The worst one I've had was one that the pump governor moved on the shaft during the front bolt installation and torqing. (the governor has the mark and is just a tapered fit on the pump's shaft, without a key ) Got the timing way off. Had to end up setting it up by the drip method. I've set up a bunch of 603's feel free to toss out any questions you might have about getting it right again. |
#13
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Have you checked your valve timing?
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
#14
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No, I have not. Are you thinking since I got the head back from the shop that it would be off??????? How do I do it and what do you think about the IP Timing???
I burnt the old starte waiting ect. still burnt. Went through a battery(completely dead) I know you are very knowledgable about these. I appreciate your input. |
#15
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Well I was thinking you could have messed up the valve timing while you were rolling in the new chain. The quick and easy way to check is to line up the timing marks on the cam and cam tower and reading the degrees on the crank.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
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