Do you guys agree?...........

I see a gas car like a regular light bulb been around for a long time but was always inefficient. Then later when we had a energy crisis (gas price raise) and a more efficient and more reliable flouresent light bulb (diesel car) comes around to prove that it lasts longer (just like diesels) saves energy(40% more fuel efficent than gas)

What you guys think?

GAS:


Diesel

its a bit flawed-- diesel engines(and cars) have been around just as long.

theyre really not more efficient than newer gassers; theyre also not any longer lasting than newer gassers.

i love my diesel to pieces but it really offers no advantages to the general public, not the diesels we favor, at least. the 616/617s are hogs compared to modern diesels.

they offer advantages over them, but none that cant be overcome by a 100,000 mile warranty on a newer automobile. these advantages(to me) are the servicability of these cars is just plain superior.

example: my fathers truck dropped a window regulator. he asked me to replace it. 3 screws and 2 dozen or so pop fasteners later, i finally wrestled the darned door panel off. i broke some of the retaining tabs for the pop fasteners doing this.

on the merc, it is 3-4 screws and lift. no pop fasteners, no broken plastic, just a simple solution.

this, to me, shows the entire design philosophy of these cars, ease of servicing. theyre still pretty hard to live with for anyone but we hardcore addicts.

oh yeah- a crown vic/ w126 sd are so totally comparable in every respect that i'd have a hard time deciding which one to own. same economy, same room, same safety. i'd drive the benz or the ford in that case. the ford even uses the cheap 2.05 fuel, not the 2.60 diesel

__________________
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Untitled-1.jpg

I don't know, if someone slams into the back of a SD, will it catch fire? Most likely not. Crown Vics and maybe some Grand Marqs have that problem. Some say it's a problem only limited to Crown Vic police cruisers and interceptors, but they have the same gas tanks found in civilian Crown Vics, Grand Marqs, and Town Cars, so they should have the same problem too, right?

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

thats just the price you pay if youre driving around in a gas tank on wheels. id assume most gas cars would catch fire if they were "slammed" into in the rear.

this rear-drive fomoco family has been around in the same basic layout for what, 17 years? i'd think that if the matter was as pressing as you make it sound, i'd have heard about it before. surely after almost two decades of the same bodystyle!

maybe im talking out of my ass here, maybe even getting tapped makes them explode? i dont care because i dont own one.

i do, however, stand behind my original point that these cars have advantages over the 126 sds. flame wars be damned.

__________________
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Untitled-1.jpg

iNeon,
How about that the diesels run off Vegetable oil as an advantage to the general public? There are virtually no green house gasses, home grown domestic fuel stimulates local economies, and Biodiesel iand SVO have huge positive energy gains (see http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ethanol/balance.html ) to negative gains for petroleum fuels and small energy gains for Ethanol, Plus, most spark ignition engines wont off ethanol without reprogramming computers/adjusting timing from what I understand. 20 - 30 mpg off of Veggie oil is better tha 40, 50 or 60
mpg off of gasoline.

Speaking of newer diesels, my 1998 Jetta TDI gets 52mpg on petroldiesel and 46mpg on Biodiesel. Compare that to my mother's "fuel efficient" 2001 Toyota Corrolla that gets a mere 32 mpg on Gasoline and wont run on renewable fuels at all except for 10% Ethanol as all gas cars can do.

So old MBs can still offer benefit to society if you run them off of veggie oil (biodiesel is just veg oil put through a chemical reaction so that is included here) and also remember you are saving resources by not buying a new car and making use of the old car you have. Efficient use of resources is the only way.

when large scale biodiesel production reaches the masses, we'll talk about it. until then, its a boutique product and has no benefits to 'normal' people.

biodiesel increases some emissions, does it not?

i see the benefits of diesel cars, youall dont need to convert me! i am one of you...

__________________
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Untitled-1.jpg

Interesting comparison.
There are some similarities between the 2 cars, as you pointed out. However, there is a vast difference in "feel". Large Fords, at least of the early part of the Crown Vic production, were notorious for vague, numb steering.
Most of the rest of the car is bullet-proof.
I wonder if there are bits and pieces in the FoMoCo parts bin to implant a better steering box, and add IRS/disc brakes to the rear. Seems to me that Lincoln offered an independent raer suspension, along with disc brakes.
If the standard HP available Ford isn't enough, there is enough high performance bolt-on stuff to satisfy almost anyone.
Hmmmmm.

Biodiesel is reaching the general public. It also does not have to do so for us to talk about it. Just driving a Diesel will bring biodiesel and low sulfur diesel into the mainstream. It is the chicken and egg problem afterall .

Emmissions are not a factor when emmission controls are used as they are on gasoline cars (google for diesel emmission controls). I really do not know enough specific details of biodisel emmissions by heart to be able to tell you exactly. However, i do know with D2 you cannot use emmission controls because of the sulfur. Biodiesel (naturally sulfur free) and ultra low sulfur diesel allows our cars to employ emmissions controls that make our emmissions as clean or cleaner than any gasoline car. They have had good diesel emmission controls since around 1980 however they could not be implemented because the sulfur in D2 clogs them up. As soon as America stops allowing sulfur, a big contributor to acid rain, in the fuel, emmissons of diesels wont be a factor. Also, emmisions are not the definitive factor of a good fuel or engine. The whole lifecycle energy balance of the fuel and car have to be considered.

Here is a perfect example of where the Government and supply and demand economy fails the general public by giving in to their demands. My boys demand candy all the time. I do not give in all the time. The government needs to not give in all the time and protect ourselves from polluting our environments. For some reason they are quick to step in and keep us from smoking a joint in our nests, but when we are making the air unbreatheable for everyone around, they are really slow and apathetic about it. Can you say government by the petroleum companies for the petroleum companies? I can.

Government by the petroleum companies, for the petroleum companies.

If you see the benefits (and I believe you do) , why did you say that diesels offer no real benefits to the genearl public? Were you being cynical and meaning that they offer nothing the general public *thinks* they need.

On the subject of explosions on the big fords from being rear-ended...
This is an issue on the patrol cars because of their nature of being on the side of the road on open highways. Most autos are not generally likely to be rear ended at 55-75 miles per hour but patrol cars spend gobs of time on the side of the highway either shooting radar or actively writing tickets. When they are writing their car often is in a traffic lane partly to give the officer some cover while they are at the offender's window.
Couple this with driver fatigue issues and the risk of high speer rear endings increase in likelyhood.
my .02.

__________________
1959 Gravely LI, 1963 Gravely L8, 1973 Gravely C12
1982 380SL
1978 450 SEL 6.9 euro restoration at 63% and climbing
1987 300 D
2005 CDI European Delivery
2006 CDI Handed down to daughter
2007 GL CDI. Wifes

i was born a cynic

yes, perception of quality plays a giant role in which cars sell and which ones sell after hefty discounting.

the general public thinks that a loud, smelly car is a bad car. you cannot get around that way of thinking.

i do not wish to buy a new tdi/cdi/crd engine just because i am not the financing type. i want an affordable, SERVICABLE car that i can afford to repair. these new diesel engines are just plain too advanced. that research and development cost is factored into the price of the parts and i dont want any single part of the car(beyond the engine or transmission) to cost over 2,000 to replace.

low sulpher fuels are going to be here in a year and i have yet to hear a yes or no to whether theyll be good for our cars. are they?

i think youre missing the point here alltogether....

internal combustion engines, PERIOD, are bad for air. burning anything, PERIOD, is bad for the air. feeding your dog chilli, PERIOD, is bad for the air.

__________________
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Untitled-1.jpg

Good observation, Mr. ineon.

Crown Vic/Grand Marquis have one advantage - a lot more mechanics know how to work on the FoMoCo and not screw it up.

It's a touchy beast, take very little throttle pressure for it to go, and has twitchy steering. It's meant for fingertip control, and is not a 'driving' experience. It is roomy, competent, reliable, and inexpensive to own and maintain.

Ours has reached the age of burning oil, about 1qt/1000 miles, which seems common for the Modular 4.6l engine. It has accumulated 217k+ and our daughter has 'inherited' it.

The SDL got to the point I did not want to throw money at it as fast as it demanded.

i cant believe it took this argument to make me realize how much i like those big beasts.

theyre handsome in their modern version, but the back bumper being so thin and/or so poorly attached annoys me every time i drive behind one though.

ever see a marauder or lx sport? they seriously give amg 126 gassers a run in the looks department.

i am almost ready to sign on the dotted line... and i activly *hate* ford products! ever change the oil on a new taurus when its warm? ouch!

__________________
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Untitled-1.jpg

Any car that is commonly used as a taxi or police car is a good car in my book. That includes some of our diesels, in other countries anyway. I have had a Crown Vic and it was a great car and I would love to have another but for now I am driving my 300D and will veggietize it very soon. I love the servicability of the Benz. Everything can be repaired easily or rebuilt and nothing seems to be buried too bad. Crown Vic's are fairly simple cars but it is a large car and doesn't get too much technology poured in it. Does anyone remember the old VV carburetors they put in those cars back in like 81 or even the late 70's? That was the goofiest piece I have ever seen and they broke frequently. On top of that, no one would fix them either but when tuned and adjusted properly, those cars would get 28 MPG. Darn good for back then. So to tie in with the original thread, I kind of agree with the light bulb analogy for what its worth.

Hey, you knew the risks when you chose your lifestyle.

__________________
'87 300SDL

dieselbenz

LOL Good one!