Here we go! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mismost · #16 03-08-2006, 10:05 AM

Barry123400....I think you answered your own question when you said "the inertia of their own operations will finish them". The labor union demands that saddle GM with about 1200.00 per car to pay pension plans, health plans for retired personnel forced GM (and other manufactures) to cut corners and quality suffered as a result.

Higher production costs in a very competitive market place caused sagging sales, coupled with rebates equals low profits equals big time trouble with no quick fix in sight.

I think we are going to see a couple of things happen pretty quick. 1.) Auto worker unions cut their own pay scale...like that is gonna happen. 2.) Uncle Sam will come to the rescue and release GM from the retirement funds and then, we the people, pay the tab. 3.) GM will die a pretty quick death and the Washington vote farmers won't like that. Not a pretty picture.

There are ripple effects in action also. Slower sales = less production = less parts bought from suppliers = the biggest auto parts supplier Delphi (I think that's the name) is now in bankrupcey court. It's the old plumbers rule....stuff flows down hill.

The American Automobile Manufactures are gonna have to change, and change for the better, or die. That is what I see, your vision may be less cloudy.

Austin85 · #17 03-08-2006, 10:17 AM

Comparing a MB to a Camry.....? For what?
If it's MPG... I get about 125 miles to every gallon of RUG I pay for in my cast Iron block 300D.

That's better than 41 mpg in a toyota, and I would probably get hives if I had to ride in one of those "grampa cars" anyway.

Hatterasguy · #18 03-08-2006, 11:04 AM

The Toyota puts out 70hp and probably weighs what 2,500 wet? Of course it will get 41mpg, and be a gutless rattle trap in the process. An E320CDI will still do better then the Toyota.

Anyway back to the main point, who is really surprised by this? Come on of course they will continue to do what they have been for the past few years. Jack the price up in the spring, lower it a bit in the summer and jack it again in the fall. I bet were at $3.25-$3.50 by the end of the year, but thats life what can you do?

Thats why I bought the SDL insted of a 14mpg 560. Considering how much I drive putting $100 a week into the 560 would get old, such a waste of money.

braverichard · #19 03-08-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin85

Comparing a MB to a Camry.....? For what?
If it's MPG... I get about 125 miles to every gallon of RUG I pay for in my cast Iron block 300D.

That's better than 41 mpg in a toyota, and I would probably get hives if I had to ride in one of those "grampa cars" anyway.

Well I suppose you need the RUG for use with WVO. Well, the same can apply to the Toyota. In my case, I don't care much for hunting down WVO and I don't even have the time for it even if I cared. This Toyota is a solid car and thus deserves the comparisons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

The Toyota puts out 70hp and probably weighs what 2,500 wet? Of course it will get 41mpg, and be a gutless rattle trap in the process. An E320CDI will still do better then the Toyota.

Eh... sorry but an E320CDI driven the same way in which the Toyota Camry diesel made 41mpg would only return about 33mpg. Of course, considering the weight of the E320CDI and the power output, that's still very efficient. But you can't compare the two in terms of sheer MPG numbers. That Camry is very attractive to me because it is a very reliable little car, a Toyota which is never a bad thing and even with expensive diesel, with such awesome mpg figures I'd still be ahead of the gasoline cars by far. Add onto that the fact that I keep a Honda Civic solely for use on bad winter days, then the fact that this Toyota is very efficient and is also a front wheel drive car makes it very attractive to me.

Hatterasguy · #20 03-08-2006, 03:19 PM

Well I guessd if you got it for a song and just drive it. Parts are probably fun to get though. What year 86?

braverichard · #21 03-08-2006, 03:24 PM

Well the car isn't mine (read my long post on the previous page). Surprise surprise: parts are easy to get. I was shocked to hear that. My friend did his research before we bought it. The local Toyota dealership can get just about everything we need for the car. So far we've purchased new timing belt, drive belts and water pump. Yes it is an '86.

MBeige · #22 03-08-2006, 03:47 PM

Isn't the Camry more comparable to the 190D W201? Smaller, lighter, and more or less similar MPG.

braverichard · #23 03-08-2006, 04:45 PM

Yes indeed. I stated previously that I know a guy (also a forum member) who owns a 190D with the naturally aspirated 5 cylinder 2.5L engine and he gets 38 - 40 mpg consistently, though he has a manual transmission which obviously helps.

Diesel Giant · #24 03-08-2006, 05:17 PM

LOL I had one of those Carmy diesels. Someone had stuck a bolt in the turbo and renendered it useless. Still ran fine but blew massive amount of smoke on full throttle.

I called it giving the driver behind me "old smokey"

babymog · #25 03-08-2006, 06:48 PM

I'll happily make that comparison.

I bought my '87 190D turbo this past winter, odometer in-op but original owner / seller estimates around 250k, drives solid and tight so ?? Was curious about the car, ended up owning it. Too much fun to drive for the price, thought my daughter would like it but so far I'm loving it.

As to the numbers, it weighs 3010, turns around 3,000rpm at 75mph, quiet and powerful with 123hp, automatic, last tankful was disappointing at 28mpg straight city, have been getting 29 city, highway driving 80 with full load (trunk full with 500lbs of zinc-sulfate) nets me 35mpg I'm sure I can get better. No smoke, floor it and it burns clean. Doesn't rattle the neighbors out of bed either.

I am a "spirited" driver, don't beat it but don't baby it either, like how it runs at 120mph, smooth and well controlled. Better mileage could be had by one who drives slower I'm guessing.

I sure can't figure out why I'd want a Camry diesel, Mercedes did it better on all counts by my experience with this 190DT. Toyota did it cheaper, but if this thing really has a quarter-mil on it and feels this solid I'm sure it is good for many more, so the cost per mile might be comparable.

- Jeff Miller
190DT

braverichard · #26 03-08-2006, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

I sure can't figure out why I'd want a Camry diesel, Mercedes did it better on all counts by my experience with this 190DT. Toyota did it cheaper, but if this thing really has a quarter-mil on it and feels this solid I'm sure it is good for many more, so the cost per mile might be comparable.

This is very interesting. You've never owned one, seen one or driven one (one = Camry diesel) but you say that "Mercedes did it better on all counts by my experience..." Sure your experience with the 190D has been great, but you can't make a comparison when you know nothing about the second subject of the comparison. Unless you do but forgot to include it in your post. If that's the case then disregard this criticism.

As for me, the Camry has one thing the Benz will never have: front wheel drive. When winter arrives here, you'll appreciate it. That makes it attractive to me.

babymog · #27 03-08-2006, 07:58 PM

Sorry, I thought this was the Mercedes diesel forum.

Yeah, I've driven Camrys, I was a dealer in the '80s. Also Honda, Fiat, Mercedes, Volkwagen, and Volvo. It's amazing to me that you have found an '80s Camry that hasn't rusted through. They were POS new, rattled and flexed, no two pieces of plastic matched, cheap and built to be cheap. They were a value leader. The Saturn of the '80s.

As to FWD: I've had FWD, RWD, and AWD. I live in Michigan, drive in snow, love to. The only one of the three I'll never have again is FWD. It is cheap and allows an automaker to save lots of money on drivetrains and rear suspensions, and softer chassis, even saves some fuel from the lighter flimsier powertrain and body. The problem is that the wheels have to direct and pull the car at the same time, and in real snow this is a problem. The little bits you find in a parking lot or plowed road are usually not a problem for FWD especially in the typical 60/40 F/R weight distribution of the cheaper FWD cars, but you sure see a lot of them stuffed backwards in snowbanks around here in the winter. Whenever I hear someone tell me FWD is better in snow, I know the extent of their winter driving and car experiences.

Enjoy the Camry, I've learned long ago that it is difficult to explain color to a blind man, but then you might just be trolling over here on the M-B forum and I was foolish enough to bite.

Is there such a thing as the Camry diesel forum?

- Jeff Miller
190DT

braverichard · #28 03-08-2006, 08:15 PM

Yes this is a Mercedes forum, but that doesn't mean that fair assessment and logic get thrown out of the window just to praise MBs. MBs are great, I love them, probably more than you do. I was raised in them, my parents have never driven anything that isn't a Benz - seriously, my dad's first car was a Benz. My absolute dream cars are Benzes. Where I come from if it isn't a Benz it isn't considered a vehicle with any real credentials. So many people drive Benzes - junked, beat up or mint, a Benz is still a Benz.

Since you were a dealer in the '80s, your attitude is too childish for someone your age I must say. Before you start saying I "might just be trolling over here on the M-B forum" you may want to check my join date first - maybe even compare that to yours and then tell who exactly is trolling through and who isn't. You've written a bunch of stuff, all well respected, but plenty of opinions and just because mine is not the same as yours doesn't mean any of them is wrong. RWD is rubbish in winter driving; FWD is haven in winter driving. That's been my experience. If yours is different, then great. No problem. But I will try to solve my problems, even if to you what is a problem to me may not be one. That's fine that's life.

You claim that it is amazing that I found an '80s Camry with no rust, well, right here I can tell you I know of six different '80s Camrys right in my area with zero rust. Then the Toyota forums reveal even thousands more. I wonder what else you find amazing.

I don't even own the damn Camry, so I'm beginning to think I should just stop here.

mbzkid · #29 03-08-2006, 08:15 PM

Oh, I see, we are talking about Camrys from the 80s. I'm not too educated on the earlier Toyota models. I think its safe to assume they are much lighter than the MBs. Surely the MPG differences have to do with more than just weight.

How can you compare the two? MBZ diesel owners are looking for a little more than just cheap motoring...something a Camry from the 80's can't provide.

MBeige · #30 03-08-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

Is there such a thing as the Camry diesel forum?

There is a Toyota forum, however. I've dropped by once in a while in Toyotanation.com since we also have a Corolla. Not much diesels that I see though.