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  #61  
Old 09-29-2008, 03:12 PM
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Idle is electronically controlled by EDS (acronyms will drive you nuts). Early 603.96s and possibly .970s have an adjustable trim to set base electronic idle. 603.971s (92-95 US 140s) don't have an adjustable trim. There is a mechanical base idle adjustment on the IP but AFAIK it does not factor into the EDS setting; i.e., EDS will set idle to 650rpm (or whatever) regardless of mechanical base idle setting. Dave can confirm.

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  #62  
Old 09-29-2008, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
Idle is electronically controlled by EDS (acronyms will drive you nuts). Early 603.96s and possibly .970s have an adjustable trim to set base electronic idle. 603.971s (92-95 US 140s) don't have an adjustable trim. There is a mechanical base idle adjustment on the IP but AFAIK it does not factor into the EDS setting; i.e., EDS will set idle to 650rpm (or whatever) regardless of mechanical base idle setting. Dave can confirm.

Sixto
87 300D


What the hell is ELR then I wonder? Sounds like one of the emission bits.
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  #63  
Old 09-29-2008, 04:04 PM
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I think ELR is the module that controls spark ignition for gassers.

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  #64  
Old 09-29-2008, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
I think ELR is the module that controls spark ignition for gassers.

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87 300D


Hrm, perhaps.
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  #65  
Old 09-29-2008, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meles View Post
gsxr,
Do the 350sdl and w140 om603s require the injection pump timing to be adjusted? I am thinking that they automatically adjust for the timing belt stretching so this is automatically adjusted too?
Do these cars have an idle adjustment?
While in this vein, am I correct that the engine valves are self adjusting too?

Been searching around and I've not found anything.
Yep, as HMX said, these engine have double-row timing chains, and require manual injection timing adjustments. As the chain wears, the injection timing will gradually retard (not a huge amount, but it will drift a couple degrees over the years). It's not that hard to check chain stretch, or adjust timing, but the proper tools do make it easier.

The valves are non-adjustable since the hydraulic lifters (cam followers) automatically compensate for clearance. Sometimes they get noisy and if synthetic oil doesn't cure it within maybe 5kmi, new lifters will usually do the trick... assuming there is no debris in the head oil galley restricting oil flow to the lifters! (Don't ask how I know that.)

EDS = Electronic Diesel System, which I believe is the name of the main computer control for idle speed, emissions (EGR / ARV), and on some engines also the boost pressure. ELR is sort of a sub-system, part of the overall EDS. (On some cars, there may be ELR only without EDS, but this may not apply to USA models with EGR). ELR = Electronic Idle Speed Control (I'm sure it stands for something interesting in German). The ELR actuator is the red round thingy on the back of the IP.


Link to ELR chapter in FSM:
http://www.w124performance.com/service/w124CD1/Program/Engine/602_603/07.1-1855.pdf

Full EDS description (warning - many years/models are covered here!)
http://www.w124performance.com/service//w124CD1/Program/Engine/602_603/07.1-0010.pdf



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  #66  
Old 09-29-2008, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
I think ELR is the module that controls spark ignition for gassers.
Close... gasser digital ignition (spark control) would be EZL. Aren't acronyms great?

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  #67  
Old 09-29-2008, 05:16 PM
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Apologies to Hit Man.

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  #68  
Old 09-29-2008, 09:43 PM
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TNT time

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Yep, as HMX said, these engine have double-row timing chains, and require manual injection timing adjustments. As the chain wears, the injection timing will gradually retard (not a huge amount, but it will drift a couple degrees over the years). It's not that hard to check chain stretch, or adjust timing, but the proper tools do make it easier.

The valves are non-adjustable since the hydraulic lifters (cam followers) automatically compensate for clearance. Sometimes they get noisy and if synthetic oil doesn't cure it within maybe 5kmi, new lifters will usually do the trick... assuming there is no debris in the head oil galley restricting oil flow to the lifters! (Don't ask how I know that.)

EDS = Electronic Diesel System, which I believe is the name of the main computer control for idle speed, emissions (EGR / ARV), and on some engines also the boost pressure. ELR is sort of a sub-system, part of the overall EDS. (On some cars, there may be ELR only without EDS, but this may not apply to USA models with EGR). ELR = Electronic Idle Speed Control (I'm sure it stands for something interesting in German). The ELR actuator is the red round thingy on the back of the IP.


Its TNT cocktail time after reading that EDS particularly on w140 (actually it was the delivery service for my front bumper that killed me as they had me making some extra trips home from work). Some 130 proof Montmartre absinthe watered down with canadian club (shaken).
My mechanic said years ago they were self adjusting valves when I paid to have them adjusted. He also replaced my timing chain at 175k miles and stated he did not adjust the timing since he did not think it had been adjusted as the chain stretched. He kept the original timing. I'm now 85k miles later so might be starting to stretch a little. For wvo/bio this guy says:
See Dr. Evil below.....
"adds just 2 degrees to the 'std' setting which is just about right for BioDiesel" (volkswagon)

I believe you advance the timing to compensate for timing chain stretch, so that's two reasons to advance the timing. I'm a neophyte with a TNT cocktail as my special tool, so don't try this on my own? I see this on my pump:
see attachement below...
Might I adjust that ever so slightly?

On to Idle adjustment (surely I can try this?):
BenzDiesel on this sight:
The idle adjustment screw is on the injectionpump near the electronic idle control (the big red thing on the back of the injectionpump). You must loosen the half inch nut securing the adjustment screw. I think it takes a 5 or 6 millimeter socket or wrench to turn the adjustment screw. I have used vise grips. Backing out INCREASES rpm. 700 rpm works well for me, providing a smooth, gas like idle. …… for any 603 or 617 I have owned, the ELECTRONIC and SENSOR systems have to be 100% operational for the idle control to be taken over automatically and I've been lucky enough to have been in the presence of ONLY one car where that happens…”

I think I should try adjusting and see what happens. A little higher might do the trick (though gsxr you seem to be subconsiously hinting I need to replace the ELR.) Problem is I have a little red thing that does not have a half inch nut. Its just red plastic surrounded by a round metal jacket/ring. Do I remove the red plastic cap to reveal and adjustment screw? I tried turning the whole thing, but would not budge.

Thanks to all. This is a great merc diesel group. I post on mbworld and they just tell me my engine is going to blow up and not much else. You guys do the same, but add much else. Kudos! w140 diesel is a rarer bird and no mechanics in the area have true experience so I am always expecting disappointment. Eager to do as much as I can myself just because I know that it was done right. (or if not I only have myself to blame which is much better than thinking negative things about one's mechanic, negative is unhealthy.)

Another TNT I think....
Attached Thumbnails
Pictorial on installing the Bosio injector nozzles-evil.jpg   Pictorial on installing the Bosio injector nozzles-elr.jpg  

Last edited by Meles; 09-29-2008 at 09:52 PM.
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  #69  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:14 PM
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I think ELR was a band from the '70s.
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  #70  
Old 09-30-2008, 09:50 AM
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BenzDiesel must own a lot of junky cars, if he's "been lucky enough to be in the presence of ONLY one car" with functional ELR. I've only seen one or two where the ELR did not work. If it's not working properly, fix it. On the one car I've seen where it wasn't working, the problem was a broken wire near the red actuator. Repaired the wire, and the ELR worked fine. It's a simple system that rarely dies completely.

There is NO need to mess with the mechanical adjustment on the IP. That is supposed to be set to around 570rpm, and the ELR is supposed to increase things electrically to 630rpm. Click here to see the factory specs & test procedure.

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  #71  
Old 09-30-2008, 10:41 AM
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Will check it out

Thanks. I should be able to determine something from this.
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  #72  
Old 12-05-2008, 01:57 PM
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Problem better

Replaced air filter, problem might have been helped sporadic low idle some. I have added considerable beefing up of my vegoil system (the best I think.) This appears to have solved the idle issue.
See my typical over detailed discussion at vegoil conversions:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/voconversionbasics/vpost?id=2947026
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  #73  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:52 PM
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It's nice to see so many taking care of thier Diesels .

To back track a bit to the mechanically injected OM 616 & 617 engines , after a couple hundred thousand miles yes , the nozzles are indeed shot and no longer atomize , they spray a tiny stream and this makes for hard cold starting and genrally poor performance although not necessarily a miss .

I know many who've simply replaced the nozzles in the driveway and the correct spray pattern makes your old beater 300SD run clean as a whistle and smoother too .

Nonetheless , popoff pressures are also critical , my old '78 thrasher 300CD had popoff pressure all over the map , a few of the injectors were popping off at nearly 1/2 the correct pressure , no wonder it smoked so badly and was hard to start below 48° F .

My buddy had a hommade popoff tester (hydraulic bottle jack) with a liquid filled gauge in _pounds_ so we adjusted all my injectors to within 10 # popoff pressure and the car ran much better even though I didn't replace the worn out nozzles . (the engine was shot much like the rest of the car)

He set the popoff pressure on his 300SDL to within 5 PSI along with new nozzles and his car was so smooth you couldn't hear it idle and the power was astounding . sadly he moved away so I cannot borrow it anymore

You always set the injectors to spec. , never try to massage them for weak cylinders , this is madness and won't work .

The injector springs get weak with they years & thermal cycles so it's best to check and inspect the popoff pressure but , if you're the typical Dieselhead with an old car having 237,000 miles and little money , just replace the nozzles and you'll get good dollar value for the money ~ it is imperative to observe hospital cleanliness as one tiny bit of lint off your " clean " rag or dust , will clog the tip .

Also , I've noticed that the cheaper " rebuilt " injectors do not have new nozzles , just cleaned out used ones and the spray pattern suffers .

I am awaiting finding a cheap popoff tester (yes they DO show up) before I do the nozzles and injectors in my current 1980 300CD and SWMBO's cherry 240D as it has over 300,000 miles and one injector died requiring an junkyard replacement over my objection but it made the car run smoothly again .
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  #74  
Old 06-04-2013, 12:32 PM
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About to replace nozzles on my 400k+ 617, and wouldn't hate re-calibrating pop pressures while in there. Has anyone found a Pop Tester, perhaps among our cohort here? Or perhaps one available for rent?

Made one myself using the 'bottle jack method' a few years back; it even worked pretty well. Unfortunately, though, I think whatever seal was in that jack didn't like diesel fuel...!
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  #75  
Old 06-04-2013, 02:49 PM
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Vince Walden how to rebuild IDI Injectors.
vincewaldon.com - HOW-TO: Rebuild Diesel IDI Injectors

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