w124 sunroof questions I couldn't answer by searching - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

geoff.doctor · #1 04-06-2006, 02:39 PM

Hello Everyone, Great Site!

I have an 87 300D, that I just picked up for $700 because the ball joint has broken. I am slowly going through different issues, and now I am onto the sunroof issue.

It will not move, so I got impatient and pulled off the visor (I have another) so I could look at what is happening. It appears the large black bar/bracket the cable is attached to is off track, as one side moves much much farther than the other will.

I was planning on just replacing the entire assembly with a working one from a wrecking yard, but I cannot seem to figure out how to remove it. I looked through the service manual, and still cannot fully understand how

I have repaired sunroofs on my two previous cars (91 Audi 100 and 93 Nissan Maxima) And was able to unscrew them while open and remove the entire assembly, which made it much eaiser to work on.

Is it possible to do this on the mercedes? Keep in mind I cannot get the roof to open, it is in the stuck closed position. If so, how is it done? Will it come out as an assembly or in pieces?

Also, while the roof is closed, is it possible to remove the metal panel so I can try to get that bar/bracket back in the track?

Any help is appreciated!

a2t · #2 04-08-2006, 10:43 PM

Me and you are in same boat brohda! Ive got 87 300d turbo bought last october and would shuuure like that giant sunroof to work.

Theres a huge PDF file in the manuals on the sunroof, which Id be happy to email you if you want. But it wont help much, its mostly illegible and they zoom in so far on the pics you have no idea what you are looking at.

Basically, the ENTIRE headliner needs to come out, far as I can tell. Thats the pregame show, after which the real stuff starts. But since I have no idea how to actually remove the stretched leather headliner I cannot say what happens next. I gave up on it but would like to start again. Incidentally, the cable is not expensive (in benz terms) - like $70. I wouldnt go thru all that and not replace with new!

Anyway, email me, Id love to share 300d turbo horror stories with someone out there.

pi2060@yahoo.com

fastpakr · #3 08-24-2006, 11:48 PM

Either of you ever get anywhere? I've got the same problem on my '87 300D as well. I'd love to hear any experiential advice if you guys have any. Thanks!

Also, did you ever sort out your cruise control issues?

dieseldiehard · #4 08-25-2006, 12:08 AM

OK, this is something I am farming out to a mechanic friend that has experience w/ sunroofs. I promised him I wouldn't attempt it after he warned me I might destroy things if I didn't know what I was doing (and I don't have the temperament for this kind of job) anyhow here is what you may need, in case you get into the job and need parts, there are early and late 124's. This is for the 300D up to VIN A575203
124-780-05-12 Slide angle at Transport Bridge, L
124-780-06-12 ditto R
in case you are in there and want to replace the channel seals:
124-782-04-98 Slide seal, F
124-682-00-97 Pad, rear
And as someone said may as well replace the cable while in there:
124-780-00-98

The slide angles often fail in these and they have been revised several times so I would replace both sides while you are in there even if its only dragging or low on one side. Dealer's List for above is about $340 YMMV.

a2t · #5 08-25-2006, 08:16 AM

Ive gotten nowhere with it. I did once try to remove the stretched leather-ette headliner. I got as far as removing front part where the sun visors sit, interior light, all that.

The head liner is tacked in with 1 way plastic spikes and I didn’t feel like breaking them as they are probably $20 ea at the benz dealer.

Let me know if you get anywhere. I found 1 of these in junk yard and spent about an hr trying to dismantle to see how it worked. Car is built like a brick *****house inside. I couldn’t break it trying.

markg612 · #6 08-25-2006, 10:04 AM

Not as scary as it seems.

I actually repaired my broken slider, ah hum. Not the most impressive work I'd like to claim credit for but it works for now. It took about 10 hours and cost nothing.

Excellent point on the SN split, there are some old PN sliders still in the system, but depending on the parts guy that looks them up, they show they supersede forward. If you use the newer ones, the associated tracks and ancillary parts need to be changed as well. Dealer parts for the mod run close to $600. If you 'locate' the old part number sliders, taking the number right off the part, they can be had from MB, but you need a savvy parts guy to know how to look them up. 160 each wholesale.

The easiest way to start with is removing the seats, front and rear, the door seals that slides on the spot-welded seam, all four, and the pillar covers all six, 2 front, rear and center. The entire roof inside is actually the Sliding roof module. The plastic holders or nails for the head liner are reusable if you are gentle pulling them out. I can't remember off hand about the rear edge of the liner along the rear window, but I do remember sliding a "keeper" over it back into place. Granted "nails" they will hold again, but not as nice as new. They are cheap from online body parts sellers or dealers that wholesale to MBCA members, i.e, Hoehn in Carlsbad, or Sears in Minneapolis.

Next the headliner peals out rather easily from the edges along with steal bows that form it up from the inside. You are about 90% there. Just be careful in the back were the drive cable goes into the left rear pillar. Also, the inner liner on the slider is held in place by fir tree "nails" on the leading edge. They pop down with a minor amount of prying with the proper tool.

The roof cartridge is held to the inner side of the roof by bolts down either side.

You will most likely find the one of the sliders has snapped, and if the roof was forced closed with the drive motor, the cable will have popped out of the guild and the guild will be bent. The cable can be kinked and still work. A 1/4 drive extension works well as a float to hammer and reform the guide.

Without the book to guide you on the adjustment process, it's really difficult to explain, but the task in not impossible. It just takes patience and time.

If there is any way you can "work" the slider open to first remover the slider liner and then re-close the slider to be able to release the cable attachment on the back edge of the sliding roof, it will help the process immensely.

I found the failure started with lack of lubrication on the slide tracks and sliders that in-turned caused the roof to move unevenly as it locked closed and this caused the cable guide to bow as the roof moved unevenly, dislodging the plastic guide locater for the cable that then ended up behind the left slider lodged in the aft roof cartridge drain that cause the sliding roof carriage to twist because full travel was obstructed and snap the right slider. If that makes any sense.--good luck.

fastpakr · #7 08-25-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markg612

Not as scary as it seems.

I actually repaired my broken slider, ah hum. Not the most impressive work I'd like to claim credit for but it works for now. It took about 10 hours and cost nothing.

Excellent point on the SN split, there are some old PN sliders still in the system, but depending on the parts guy that looks them up, they show they supersede forward. If you use the newer ones, the associated tracks and ancillary parts need to be changed as well. Dealer parts for the mod run close to $600. If you 'locate' the old part number sliders, taking the number right off the part, they can be had from MB, but you need a savvy parts guy to know how to look them up. 160 each wholesale.

The easiest way to start with is removing the seats, front and rear, the door seals that slides on the spot-welded seam, all four, and the pillar covers all six, 2 front, rear and center. The entire roof inside is actually the Sliding roof module. The plastic holders or nails for the head liner are reusable if you are gentle pulling them out. I can't remember off hand about the rear edge of the liner along the rear window, but I do remember sliding a "keeper" over it back into place. Granted "nails" they will hold again, but not as nice as new. They are cheap from online body parts sellers or dealers that wholesale to MBCA members, i.e, Hoehn in Carlsbad, or Sears in Minneapolis.

Next the headliner peals out rather easily from the edges along with steal bows that form it up from the inside. You are about 90% there. Just be careful in the back were the drive cable goes into the left rear pillar. Also, the inner liner on the slider is held in place by fir tree "nails" on the leading edge. They pop down with a minor amount of prying with the proper tool.

The roof cartridge is held to the inner side of the roof by bolts down either side.

You will most likely find the one of the sliders has snapped, and if the roof was forced closed with the drive motor, the cable will have popped out of the guild and the guild will be bent. The cable can be kinked and still work. A 1/4 drive extension works well as a float to hammer and reform the guide.

Without the book to guide you on the adjustment process, it's really difficult to explain, but the task in not impossible. It just takes patience and time.

If there is any way you can "work" the slider open to first remover the slider liner and then re-close the slider to be able to release the cable attachment on the back edge of the sliding roof, it will help the process immensely.

I found the failure started with lack of lubrication on the slide tracks and sliders that in-turned caused the roof to move unevenly as it locked closed and this caused the cable guide to bow as the roof moved unevenly, dislodging the plastic guide locater for the cable that then ended up behind the left slider lodged in the aft roof cartridge drain that cause the sliding roof carriage to twist because full travel was obstructed and snap the right slider. If that makes any sense.--good luck.

You are the man. I'll be referring to this significantly next week when I tackle this. Any chance you have pictures to supplement? If not, I may try to take some of my own.

markg612 · #8 08-25-2006, 01:51 PM

No photos, sorry

but, I know there is a link in here somewhere to the 124 chassis manual, volume ll. the book is really good with description and detail for the removal and replacement. I'm away from home until the 5th of sept, but I might beable to send the pdf of the chapters after labor day.