Wanting 150+ HP on 617A????? ?Threads?

[RUYSENAARS]

I have a 617A in decent shape that is out of any car. I want to rebuild it to put out more HP. I have read a thread where MB pumped this engine up GREATLY! But I cannot remember where that thread is! Nor did it say in the thread how it was done(if I recall correctly ) So does anyone know how this was done? Cam work, Head work, Bigger Turbo, BI turbo? Bigger IP? Different IP? All suggestions would help, as I want to make this monster engine for a project!

[TheDon]

i do know of a way to adjust your IP so you get more fuel delivered if your running a bigger turbo with an intercooler

[RUYSENAARS]

I was wondering if anyone has dug up the original MB specs on this hopped up 617A. This may give us some clues as to what to do. Of course this could be a big secret!!

[TX76513]

It's my understanding there was a number of archived threads that were lost on the forum last fall...October..?? This might have been one of them.

[Hatterasguy]

http://mersuforum.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=29

The last word on MB diesel tuning.

[boneheaddoctor]

There is also a site that has a crew specializing in this but its VERBOTEN to mention its name here.

[RUYSENAARS]

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

There is also a site that has a crew specializing in this but its VERBOTEN to mention its name here.

OHHHH I wonder why????? PM me! better yet email me! Pm's can be read!

Thanks for the above post as well, great info there, I havn't finished reading all of those posts, but mostly these guys have just put a bigger turbo, adjusted IP, and basicly air adjustments, wastegate, air flow, exhaust so forth. Nothing internal yet.

[Hatterasguy]

Internal mods are not really needed. They push the 603/606 to almost 500hp on stock inards. How much hp do you want?

I'm sure you could do internal mods, but it would be all custom.


Actualy if you are going for real big hp numbers, the 606 is the best choice. The injector is fitted in the center of the valves and it is a much more efficent design.


I guess if one wanted to really go nuts they could always lower the compression with custom connecting rods and pistons, make them lighter of course. Then figure out a way to make the head flow a massive amount of air, maybe much larger valves, with a custom cam to take advantage. Now slap on one of the largest Holset turbo's they make and with a lot of tunning, you should really have a monster.

[RUYSENAARS]

WOE WOE!!! No don't want MASSIVE HP! Just greatly increased HP! I want to build up a 617A, and fit it into a G-Wagon! I drove one, and now want one, but the stock(well installed) 617A, is powerfull but slow. So, I want the 617A reliablility coupled with the greatest SUV ever built!!

[imdavid28]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I'm sure you could do internal mods, but it would be all custom.

I would recast the head and make it DI. The hole indirect injection it a real drag. But this is assuming we arn't concerned with time or money.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by imdavid28

I would recast the head and make it DI. The hole indirect injection it a real drag. But this is assuming we arn't concerned with time or money.

if you had the ability to recast the head then a cross-flow design as well would be a big improvement.

[RUYSENAARS]

HMMM. Well right now I don't have that ability or that deep a pocket, I have wondered about DI! This engine would be amazing a that point. Could it be retrofited to handle Direct Injection? Without re-casting the heads?

[pmari]

Propane injection(fumigation)......


http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7147

In the car, now called C 111-IID, the OM 617 LA engine developed as much as 190 hp, With a Garret turbocharger and an intercooler, , as opposed to the 80 hp output of the production engine which powered the Mercedes-Benz 240 D 3.0 (W 115, Stroke Eight) and, at a later stage, other models. In June 1976, the C 111-IID reached spectacular speeds on the test track at Nardo near Lecce in Italy. In the course of 60 hours, four drivers established a total of 16 world records – thirteen of these applying to diesel-engined cars and three to cars in general, irrespective of their type of engine. During the tests, an average speed of 252 km/h was recorded, and Mercedes-Benz proved impressively that diesels also have sprinter qualities.

Second career as a record-breaking car

The success of the sparsely modified C 111-II in Nardo spurred the developers on to new heights. This time, they did not create a design study for a road-going sports car but a thoroughbred racing car for the sole purpose of establishing speed records: the C 111-III. The new car was built in 1977; it was narrower than the first C 111, had a longer wheelbase and perfect aerodynamic properties, thanks to complete streamlining and rear airfoils. In 1978, the C 111-III lined up at the start in Nardo. Once again, a diesel engine growled under the silver-painted plastic bodywork. While this engine had been derived from a production unit, it had been tuned to develop 230 hp and gave the streamlined car a top speed well over 300 km/h. With this Silver Arrow, Mercedes-Benz established nine absolute world records in the late 1970s.

[pmari]

Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:48:46 -0500
From: Marshall Booth
Subject: Re: [DIESEL] Any racers on the list?

Mauricio, The "red-line" and governor cut-off at least for later
OM617.95s is about 5200 rpm. The injection pump WILL provide extra fuel
when boost gets above 0.9 bar and do that without seriously smoking at
idle. I have NOT examined anything like all of it's charactristics at
above rated boost, but Stu Ritter closed up the wastegate on one and
said it REALLY moved!

[> Do keep it under 1 bar folks. The turbo will make over
> 35 psi easily. There are very few people who are willing to do the
> maintenance required to run 1 bar or better pressure. Each one tenth
> bar pressure increase is a magnitude of horse power increase. It is
> not a linear increase.
>
> Ritter, shut up already.....OK..

> On one car we blocked the hose, we saw 41psi...know what that can
> do to an engine. I wonder what the inside looks like..it must have been
> a very fast car...I think blocking the wastegate sense line was an
> attempt by a mechanic to prove how totally stupid he was.

> I have always wanted to take a 617.951 engine and hot rod it a bit..
> Having an ALDA to adjust fuel flow and a wastegate to adjust boost, it's
> a two screw operation..The only basic engine parameter that would have
> to be changed is the piston to wall clearance. As you throw thermal load
> into the piston, it by nature must expand and you have to give it the room
> to grow. That's the real reason for the factory limit of .9 bar boost pressure.
> If you could accommodate piston expansion, you could literally have unlimited
> power, more or less..
>
> Factory piston to wall is .03mm which is 1.2 thou..most unlike American stuff
> where you figure one thou/inch of bore, more or less. The factory pistons
> have steel bands cast/forged into the pistons to control expansion. There is
> an oil cooling jet under the piston that removes the heat...so....if you would
> just take the piston to wall clearance and open it up to Chevy standards
> you could really crank the boost up and be perfectly safe (DO NOT try
> this at home kiddies..Hot Rodding means blowing things up occasionally).
>
> I would like to run one of these engines at about 2-2.5 bar boost someday..
> I have driven one (a very short distance) at 2.7 bar and you couldn't keep
> the rear wheels from spinning..The turbo runs against an open wastegate
> all the time and is capable of making over 3.3 bar of boost pressure...
>
> Anyone have a guinea pig motor out there????????????
>
> All you would need is a large differential from a V-8 to take the added
> power...hummmmmmmmm!!!!!!
>
> Stu

That's from just about the best MB mechanic out there!

Marshall

URL="http://diesel.list.archives.mbz.org/2002/Feb/Vol_3_Num_1436/"]http://diesel.list.archives.mbz.org/2002/Feb/Vol_3_Num_1436/[/URL]
>I saw a car in the MB museum in Stuttgart.. it was sitting off to the side
>in the hallway leading to the bathrooms. It was a very reworked 201 body
>(think 190E Evolution), and it had a 3L 5 cylinder turbodiesel with a bore
>and stroke of about 90 x 92. No propane injection, or anything. The
>placard said it had 225 hp @5000 rpm.

[mdisav]

Are you saying the injection pump does not need the full load adjusted to produce that power? At 2.7 bar was everything on the fuel side stock and the wastegate hose just clamped? Does that mean if you take the alda off and have the fuel totally enriched and have the turbo at 2.7 bar you can barely keep the tires from breaking loose?