Should I buy this Euro 300D? Help me decide! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

neatokino · #1 05-01-2006, 03:21 PM

Someone in my neighborhood is selling a 1984 300D 4 door sedan, european model with 5 speed manual transmission (woo hoo!). They're asking $3000. I've taken a good look at the car on the street but haven't driven it yet.

It's got 185,000 miles, was apparently a one-family car (dad drove it, gave it to his daughter), has lived all its life in california, but it's cosmetically not in very good shape: there's a small dent in the back corner and a rather large dent above the front driver's side wheel well, which has pushed the edge of the hood a bit out of alignment. I don't think the car's been in any serious accident, and the paint appears to be original, though quite faded.

The dash has so many cracks it looks like it lived its life on the Bizarro world. The cloth interior is original, but the driver's seat is worn through completely on one of the side bolsters. One of the front fog lamps has broken glass, the plastic light frames (old-style euro lights with Sylvania Halogen lamps) have tons of cracks, and the grille's got a few dings in it. There is a bit of surface rust in a few places where the paint has been chipped or dinged, but I don't think there's any rust-through (more like california beach surface rust). Euro bumpers are straight, but the rubber is peeling a bit.

I'd absolutely love to have the 5 speed, and I know all the cosmetic stuff can be dealt with or simply ignored, but can anyone give me some hints about what to look for mechanically with this car? My '85 300TD wagon is quite literally in perfect shape, and my previous '84 wagon was in pretty good shape, so I'm not sure I'd be familiar with mechanical danger signs. The owner said she'd had some work done on the clutch, but I don't know yet if they have kept mechanical records. Any way to gauge much about the engine without doing a compression test?

Are there any issues getting parts for this model in the US?

Is there a significant lack of power with no turbo, or does the 5-speed make up the difference?

My plan would be to convert this thing to run on WVO or SVO with a dual tank conversion, and I'm figuring that this would make an excellent candidate for that. Am I wrong about that?

What do you guys think? Should I jump on it? These things don't appear very often in the states, do they???

TIA

sixto · #2 05-01-2006, 03:44 PM

Price seems high for your description. AC might be the determinant depending on how badly you need AC. Might be a deal if you will live with it as is. If you plan to make a proper car out of it, a sub $1000 parts car might be the way to go. mattdave and mj_sid have a Euro they're putting out to pasture. Or put the drivetrain in a decent US body. You'll be left with a running car you can sell to recoup costs if you don't count your labor contribution to the financials.

A 300D 5-speed has decent performance but a Dt in proper tune packs more of a punch... in seat-of-the-pants terms, anyway.

Injection system parts can be a problem but not a showstopper with the resources in this forum.

Sixto

TwitchKitty · #3 05-01-2006, 05:44 PM

$3k, no way. Sounds like you are buying a transmission and getting a parts car with it.

Parts won't be an issue. Use a pre-turbo model year for reference.

The non-turbo engine gets power from RPMs. If you will be uncomfortable driving two gears lower than a gasser it is not the car for you.

Any interior shop can re-cover the seats and probably match the fabric. As an alternative you can bolt in junkyard replacements.Molded dashcover <$100.

If you are planning a dual tank conversion it is probably on its way to the junkyard anyway. Make a low offer and buy it for fun if they accept.

Boardmonger · #4 05-01-2006, 06:12 PM

Sounds like a pretty crummy deal, maybe if you could talk them down to around 2k. Do they have the records of work done and the importation/bringing the car up to US Spec? With my euro there was nothing but I had no problems switching the title and insuring it but I've heard of nightmares of doing this in California. I guess I got lucky. Anyways a NA 300d really isn't much slower. In fact off the line it is a bit faster but the turbo will blow it away past 15-20 miles an hour. My 300d turbo does 60 in 11-12 seconds while my euro is between 15-17 seconds. With the 5 speed gearbox that car would be nice to drive around on the highway and would probably deliver 30 miles to the gallon. My 4 speed gets between 26-29 on the highway and it revs pretty high.

So try to talk them down and price and take it from there. The dash can be replaced as well as the upholstery but the body will be a bit more expensive to fix up. But with your two nice wagons, a beater wouldn't be bad to add to your collection, especially to keep the miles down on the others.

As far as parts they are mostly the same but the IP is different as is the throttle linkage and probably a few other small things. If possible can you post some photos of the car?

t walgamuth · #5 05-01-2006, 06:43 PM

comments above have about covered everything.

i totally disagree with the statement that the d gets its power at high rpm. it is a diesel and the power comes in lower than a gasser.

that car will do 100 and over thirty mpg on the highway if the engine is good. good chance the motor is good. check for blowby and a smooth idle. a 300na stick should be very smooth at idle because of the heavy flywheel.

if in doubt have a compression test done, but if the blowby is minimal and the idle is smooth it is prob a good motor. good motor and good tranny alone make about 2k in value. so what is the rest of the car worth? maybe 3 to 500. so i would offer 2k and try to buy around 22 to 2500.

if the motor isnt good then the tranny is worth maybe 1000 if in good shape. at those miles it should shift like a knife thru butter. i have a fiver in my 84 280e euro.

although the ip is different from the us and the throttle linkage, the us parts should interchange with them if you want to.

a little body work and a medium cheap paint job and a parts car interior and you will have a sweet ride there. does it have air?

it does have the manual ac control right?

what you have there is the ultimate 240d on steroids. simplicity, durability, performance like no 240 ever had, and mileage better than a 240 on the highway! i wish i could get my hands on it.

good luck

tom w

neatokino · #6 05-01-2006, 06:58 PM

Damn.... the owner emailed me today (I was going to drive it this evening) and said someone convinced her husband to sell it to him sight-unseen this afternoon. I guess I wasn't aggressive enough.... though I have to admit that everyone's (very reasonable) comments have left me with no regret at all for having missed this one. I'll keep my eyes open for another.

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses!

JimmyL · #7 05-01-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatokino

Damn.... the owner emailed me today (I was going to drive it this evening) and said someone convinced her husband to sell it to him sight-unseen this afternoon. I guess I wasn't aggressive enough.... though I have to admit that everyone's (very reasonable) comments have left me with no regret at all for having missed this one. I'll keep my eyes open for another.

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses!

I don't know if it was on your local Craigslist, or some other source online, but next time I would be careful posting here prior to certain deals. The vultures will swoop........

dieseldiehard · #8 05-01-2006, 07:56 PM

My old friend and associate now retired, the person responsible for getting me into diesels, sold his ('81?) 240D that had been converted to use a 300D NA engine. It ran like a top but it had symptoms of what we thought were signs of needing rings. It had always burned a bit of oil since he bought it. I gave him a 3.07 differential I had taken out of my wife's 83 300D car when I swapped a 2.82 into it and that made it a better highway car. The only thing we were never able to pinpoint was why it seemed to go thru a lot of glow plugs, it had pencil GP's and I suspect the timer was staying on too long. Long story is that my friend sold it to another friend of mine who promptly discovered the vac pump diaphragm was letting oil into the intake manifold

He had his shop go thru the car and change whatever looked like it needed besides the vac pump then he sold it to a local cop for I believe around $3K, the new owner then had it repainted with a fine paint job and its definitely a keeper! The CA DMV registration will only check to verify its a diesel if the car is just coming into the state (yes they actually want to see the engine!) o/w they couldn't care less.

Having driven a 240D with the 5 cyl I can say that this combination of performance, simplicity (no htr/AC servo to fail) and reliability is something MBNA sadly overlooked as it imported cars they felt were to be marketed in North America. They must have figured diesels with manual trannys should only be made with 4 cyl engines and no one needed a 5 banger unless it had a turbo and all the other climate control garbage attached, the result is the cars with these features were only sold elsewhere. I've only seen one other factory 4 speed 5 cyl and it was imported directly from Europe by a someone as part of the travel Europe and buy a Mercedes (or the other way around) program taht was popular in the 70's and 80's.

A five speed would have even made that a more desirable car for the long haul. It sounded to me like it needed quite a bit of work and was on the high side though. Keep looking! another one may come up sometime. Meanwhile I know of a 5 speed that I'd like to transplant into a 124 diesel. Do I sense vultures nearby? Stay away!

t walgamuth · #9 05-01-2006, 10:11 PM

i remember reading that mbna decided to stop offering sticks on all but the most basic (read 240s and such) back in the early seventies or so when they found themselves replacing too many clutches on warranty. they decided americans didn t know how to use a stick correctly.

what????

oh yeah, they were right.

but now we all are a totally different crowd from the ones who bought them originally.

we know how to!

tom w

TwitchKitty · #10 05-01-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

i totally disagree with the statement that the d gets its power at high rpm. it is a diesel and the power comes in lower than a gasser.

good luck

tom w

One should drive one of these cars before one makes up his mind.

The next best thing would be to run some searches here on this forum and see what other people say who have driven these cars since I obviously wasn't paying attention during all of those miles that I was driving mine through most of the lower 48 states. In fact these cars have been fooling me since 1976 or so.

Keep it singing or go nowhere.

Brian Carlton · #11 05-01-2006, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

i totally disagree with the statement that the d gets its power at high rpm. it is a diesel and the power comes in lower than a gasser.

High rpm is a relative thing. All engines "get their power" near the horsepower peak.......obviously. If the horsepower peak is at 4400 rpm........that's the best possible place to run the engine for maximum torque to the pavement.

The smaller the engine........and the lower the available horsepower........the greater the need to run the engine closer to the horsepower peak to stay with the traffic flow.

We could run the 603 right up to the horsepower peak for maximum torque to the pavement........but.......normally there is no need to do this.

dieseldiehard · #12 05-01-2006, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

We could run the 603 right up to the horsepower peak for maximum torque to the pavement........but.......normally there is no need to do this.

I do let it rev out and run thru the gears once in a while but I hate to wear out my tires real quick, not to mention probably getting stopped by the police! OTOH my 230 gasser is almost always revved to the max as I paddle thru the gears just to try to keep abreast of the other cars as they blast off

t walgamuth · #13 05-02-2006, 08:43 AM

well, though i bought my first diesel around the mid 80s, i have been driving benzes since 73.

perhaps we have a difference of thought that stems from interpretation of words.

course, in a 240 you just run it to the redline and shift. no torque or horsepower to worry about available at all.

but if not in a hurry you can short shift the diesels a lot more comfortably than a gasser, imho.

tom w

TwitchKitty · #14 05-02-2006, 09:51 AM

I am not talking about driving with your foot to the floor all of the time, but that is the case much of the time. Even when you accelerate gradually you are better off to wind the gears out to the point that you are in the power band of the next higher gear. This is the only way to have a reserve of power when you mash the accelerator.

A happy diesel sounds like six simulaneously exploding civics. It takes an adjustment of driving style to achieve this happy concophany.

t walgamuth · #15 05-02-2006, 07:10 PM

yep.

tom w