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  #16  
Old 06-05-2006, 09:54 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
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True, does it really make sense to pay all that money to pull and put back on a head, on a 19 year old engine with who knows how many miles? The valves, pre chambers, injectors, ect are all tired at this point.

If its still a 14 head, you may want to consider looking for a later head and giving that one a valve job. Then swap them.

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  #17  
Old 06-05-2006, 11:33 PM
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Location: Bay Area No Calif.
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I've done both ways, it all depends on the condition of the head. Don't be afraid of a #14 head, as long as its not cracked its probably ok as long as its re-surfaced flat and pressure checked (actually in the reverse order), plan on another $350 or so with new valve guides and seals. It makes no sense to put the head back on with worn guides. Aluminum tends to warp, even a little warp causes the head gasket to eventually start leaking, a simple skim cut can fix it unless the head was really overheated bad and in that case it usually cracks also. And don't let anybody sell you on repairing the crack, it won't hold because in nearly every case they fail a short time later and your time and money was completely wasted.
There are reports of people with over 350K miles on #14 heads w/ no problem. Sure there were some that failed early in their life but many were due to lack of maintenance, things outside the head usually cause them to fail when the engine overheats. Not changing antifreeze also figures into this, or using the wrong type of antifreeze or too much antifreeze (like the dork that put 100% AF in his engine and it was toast!)
A 603 will probably be a bad lesson if your just going to replace the gasket and reuse the head as-is. Think of the car as an investment at this point or sell it and buy a pre-1986 diesel or something else instead.

The proper time for parts replacement associated with that engine depends on knowing the history of all the repairs on that car, if you don't have all the service records then look to the worst case.
For example if the vacuum pump is still the old style (crimped on instead of the late style w/ 4 socket head bolts holding it on) as that can fail and bring the best efforts to naught someday.
And the lifters, were any ticking? If original they are probably ready to be replaced. New glow plugs for sure. Serp belt idler pulley maybe.
OK I'm a purist, so I'd also change the water pump as long as the head is off and a new timing chain for sure, oh you can throw $3500 into that car and it will reward you by probably lasting another 12 to 15 years with no major engine issues as long as you keep it cool (how is your radiator and thermo clutch?)
The reward is that an '87 300D turbo will flat-out get up and boogey down the road. And no valve lashes to perform with pretty darned good economy for a road rocket!
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2006, 11:42 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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if you're planning of pulling the head off to replace a leaking head gasket, if i were you, i might as well rebuild the whole engine while i'm at it. fix all the leaks. new gaskets, seals, rings, bearings, timing chain and chain guides and tensioners etc. etc. ... you're going to take the engine apart anyway so don't halfa$$ it! FIX it right and don't repair it! its going to cost time, labor and $$$$$$$$. by doing it right, it will pay-off on the next 10 or even another 20 trouble free engine years. do it if you're planning to keep the car for the rest of your life.
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  #19  
Old 06-05-2006, 11:56 PM
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Location: Bay Area No Calif.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85chedeng300D
if you're planning of pulling the head off to replace a leaking head gasket, if i were you, i might as well rebuild the whole engine while i'm at it. fix all the leaks. new gaskets, seals, rings, bearings, timing chain and chain guides and tensioners etc. etc. ... you're going to take the engine apart anyway so don't halfa$$ it! FIX it right and don't repair it! its going to cost time, labor and $$$$$$$$. by doing it right, it will pay-off on the next 10 or even another 20 trouble free engine years. do it if you're planning to keep the car for the rest of your life.
Well, I was going to add that during tear down of my last 603 project car, I decided it needed rings. It turned out (ca-ching $$$$) costing me well over what I budgeted for but like I said, consider the darned thing an investment, as long as the body and hopefully the interior is in good shape, beg borrow or steal and fix her the best you possibly can, after all this aint an old Buick we are talking about here!
I believe the '87 diesels will remain highly desireable cars for a long time to come.
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2006, 11:57 PM
John Holmes III
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Geez, how about adding up the price of a head gasket set, coolant, oil and misc shop chemicals. When you are done factor in the price of the $$$ torque wrench and special tools that you will need. Since you can work in your driveway, you don't have to worry about liability insurance, workmans comp, disposal costs for oil and coolant. Everyone needs to make a living. It's probably better that the shop doesn't get the job, because there will be hell to pay when they tell you that head is cracked or warped.
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  #21  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:04 AM
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you can do it

first, you can do it....
forget about the naysayers,

Mercedes uses a special stud to loosen head bolts, you can get a package at autozone for 9 bucks....

remove the valve cover,
remove exhaust manifold,
remove the fuel injectors,
remove the timing chain sprocket,
place a broom handle across the car hood,
wire tie the timing chain to the sprocket,
now wire tie the sprocket to the broom...(the object is to keep the timing chain in place and for it not to slip or change position)
(take an awl and mark the location of the cam, and the sprocket so it will be easy to put back together....

Now, clean everything, remove the water from the bolt holes, carefully run a tap of the same size down into the bolt holes to clean them....put your new head gasket on and reassemble. use the same head bolts and torque them 3 times....in the recommended pattern....


(for an addtitional 250 bucks you can take your head down to napa and have it clean, and rebuilt....) I usually do this.....

if all you need is a head gasket this could be done for very little money...

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  #22  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:08 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 100
Oh my.

So here is a never-before-seen rundown of my technical merits.

I converted my 300D to run on wvo, successfully. Now, given that this conversion doesn't require a deep understanding of the MB engine, I still think highly of my skills as a DIY'er (A DIY'er with a lot to learn when it comes to auto-repair) and feel that if I can put that much work and effort into one subset of the car, that I can do the same with another. I've changed filters, replaced hoses, taken things apart to see how they work, etc., but I have never done anything major. I plan on changing my injector nozzles and glowplugs out on my next paycheck. Also, I'm 18 years old, working in a thrift shop, going to high school, and any dollar amount over 300$ is enough to shake my foundations.

I actually didn't take my car to the dealership, I took it to an independent "German Auto" repair place nearby. A year ago. They did an initial tune-up and gave me a briefing when I first got my car. I have the #14 head, about 190000 miles on the car. The gasket is not very leaky (how leaky is "leaky?"), and from what I can see, the head is in good shape. There is a small amount of stain on the head (how threatening is a leaky head gasket to the actual head?). Compared to pictures I've seen of other 603's, my engine looks pretty decent. My car never overheats; on occasion, the temperature will rise a good 3-4 degrees above normal depending on the type of driving that I am doing. I also think that that slight variation in temperature has to do with the added coolant circuit in my wvo system.

Anyways, I do as much of my own work as possible. I might be starting small, but hey, a newb has got to start somewhere.
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:12 AM
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leaky head

forget about the leaky head gasket.....

if its just leaking on the outside then dont worry about it until you begin
to see water in the oil... or oil in the coolant..... it may go another 3 or 4 years that way....just keep an eye on it... and be vigilant....
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  #24  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:12 AM
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Aren't you supposed to use new head bolts every time due to stretch?
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'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
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  #25  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto
I highly encourage folks to do their own work. I have no professional training yet I manage to keep my cars running.

I admit I stereotyped dufflespank as a newbie. Hints like taking his car to the dealer, his reaction that $800 is a lot for a dealer to change a head gasket, and not having a shop manual suggest to me that he has not been around MBs very long, and he doesn't do a lot of his work. Couple that with folks whose first forum posts are "I've been a Diesel mechanic for 30 years but this is the first time I work on a 300D..." and I don't know how to not sound patronizing.

Sixto
Wait, I'm a newbie. I never said that I had worked on diesels for 30 years. Or am I misreading...?
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  #26  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:22 AM
Craig
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There seems to be three schools of thought here:

1. If you're going to tear it down anyway, fix everything that is likely to need fixing in the next few years (this makes sense if you are planning on keeping the car for a long time, and can afford to do the work now).

2. Just fix what's broken at the moment, and worry about other things later (this makes sense if you are not planning on keeping the car forever, or if you just can't afford to do "unnecessary" work).

3. Don't fix it at all until it completely fails (this doesn't make any sense, but it's free).
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  #27  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:23 AM
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no

old head bolts can be reused if they measure within specs,
you only have to buy new ones if the measure to long...

most of the people here would say buy new head bolts, but I have never bought a set of head bolts.... trace your head gasket onto the cardboard,
number the bolts, and place the bolts into the cardboard as you remove them. measure them to enusure they are ok... they will be...
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  #28  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:25 AM
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since

since you are using veggie oil, wait till you have about 20k miles on veggie oil... then change your head gasket.... get yourself some diablo carbon remover and us it to clean the pistons, and valves and remove all the carbon build up.... it will be a blast...
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:29 AM
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4th approach

the 4th aproach is this,

this is a hobby, so take you head apart anytime you feel like it...

change the head gasket this month.... next month change the timing chain,

in 5 or 6 months rebuild the head, and in another 5 or 6 months replace the rings....

Its a hobby and every time you put a wrench in your hand you will be learning and gaining valueable experience, You may go on to work on jet aircraft or even the space shuttle...

I was inside my transmission last week and I am going back in a couple of weeks....no big deal
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  #30  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:31 AM
John Holmes III
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Tourque to yield headbolts should only be used once, and most head gasket manufacutres include the head bolts in the head set or make you show proof of purchase if you attempt to do a warranty claim on the head gasket. It's not just the length that's inquestion, it's the diameter of the shank of the bolt that shrinks when torqued.

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