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  #1  
Old 07-26-2006, 06:33 PM
samson's 3DB's Avatar
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WasteGate Adjustment w123 turbo(garrett) ?

Just wondering if any one has adjusted their wastegate before. What tools a required to adjust it? are their any pics? I tried serching it here could not find any info or pics on wastegate.

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  #2  
Old 07-26-2006, 06:53 PM
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Not the proper way but...

cheap and dirty method
What I did was pinch the hose to the actuator with an adjustable clamp (a mechanics tool when you pull an engine and dont want fuel to leak while the engine is out) now I get 18psi and as the wastegate catches up it drops back to stock settings, its the best of both worlds I get 18psi when punch it and as it winds out it drops back to 8psi, prior to this chessy mod I was lucky to get 8psi uphill floored
.....you get the picture
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2006, 07:49 PM
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check this

http://www._schuman_automotive_.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12276

take out the underscores and it will work.

i hate when forums block others.
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  #4  
Old 07-27-2006, 09:10 PM
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here's another one

http://www.serenitysys.com/MB/Service_Info/Turbo_Tweak/tweaking_the_mercedes_617_turbo_.htm
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  #5  
Old 07-27-2006, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickg
cheap and dirty method
What I did was pinch the hose to the actuator with an adjustable clamp (a mechanics tool when you pull an engine and dont want fuel to leak while the engine is out) now I get 18psi and as the wastegate catches up it drops back to stock settings, its the best of both worlds I get 18psi when punch it and as it winds out it drops back to 8psi, prior to this chessy mod I was lucky to get 8psi uphill floored
.....you get the picture
its not a good idea to be running 18 psi without an intercooler or a pyrometer...


i love my KKK so easy to adjust



that is for the Air research/Garrette

the KKK all it takes is a 10mm socket to loosen the lock nut and a 3mm allen wrench .. screw it in to get more boost screw it out to get less.. dont go no higher than 12 psi without a pyrometer.. if you want to go higher get a pyro, intercooler and modify the injection pump
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2006, 11:43 PM
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check my sig line

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDon
its not a good idea to be running 18 psi without an intercooler or a pyrometer...
I searched this forum a while back and I was certain that factory settings call for just under 1Bar which is 14psi (ish) so 18psi for short bursts is not excessive by any means, and if you crank boost and DO NOT add extra fuel your EGT's will drop, higher boost does increase IAT's but with my experiments I have not gone so high in the boost dept, to have it increase the EGT, the best way I know of combating higher EGT's (without using intercooler or WMI) is to increase boost. Especially if you’re messing with the ALDA. I see lots of posts here with folks cranking up the fuel, and in my opinion you run the risk of much higher EGTs than adjusting boost, it all goes hand in hand ...if you crank up fuel you MUST crank up boost to help pull the exhaust temps back into safe temps, By increasing both boost and ALDA you get the maximum performance benefit. The 64,000 dollar question is how much is too much, I know how much a Toyota diesel engine can take before pre-cups crack and fall into a cylinder and wreck a engine, because I've been there and done that....now I've moved on to the MB engine mainly because it is a more robust engine and will/should be able to withstand a little boost (LOL) actually I got tired of repairing the poor old 2LT engine
My EGT's (check my sig line, I have gauges) have never gone over 600F, with my foot floored and the engine loaded. My pyro is mounted pre-turbo, and IIRC anything over 1350F for extended periods of time shortens the engine life (cumilitative damage, according to the Banks website)

Just my two cents
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2006, 11:50 PM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickg
My EGT's (check my sig line, I have gauges) have never gone over 600F, with my foot floored and the engine loaded. My pyro is mounted pre-turbo, and IIRC anything over 1350F for extended periods of time shortens the engine life (cumilitative damage, according to the Banks website)
Something is not right. If you can't get over 600*f, you are not getting an accurate reading.

These engines idle 300*f-400*f and should run in the 500-800range on the highway.

Even a light 0 to 35mph acceleration should net you at least 600*.
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2006, 11:53 PM
TheDon's Avatar
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the melting point of aluminum 1220F... thats what i was told not to ride at for any period of time your riding on borrowed time if your going up to 1300F
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  #9  
Old 07-28-2006, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samson's 3DB
Just wondering if any one has adjusted their wastegate before. What tools a required to adjust it? are their any pics? I tried serching it here could not find any info or pics on wastegate.
You didn't look very hard.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=114337
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  #10  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickg
I searched this forum a while back and I was certain that factory settings call for just under 1Bar which is 14psi (ish) so 18psi for short bursts is not excessive by any means, and if you crank boost and DO NOT add extra fuel your EGT's will drop, higher boost does increase IAT's but with my experiments I have not gone so high in the boost dept, to have it increase the EGT, the best way I know of combating higher EGT's (without using intercooler or WMI) is to increase boost. Especially if you’re messing with the ALDA. I see lots of posts here with folks cranking up the fuel, and in my opinion you run the risk of much higher EGTs than adjusting boost, it all goes hand in hand ...if you crank up fuel you MUST crank up boost to help pull the exhaust temps back into safe temps, By increasing both boost and ALDA you get the maximum performance benefit. The 64,000 dollar question is how much is too much, I know how much a Toyota diesel engine can take before pre-cups crack and fall into a cylinder and wreck a engine, because I've been there and done that....now I've moved on to the MB engine mainly because it is a more robust engine and will/should be able to withstand a little boost (LOL) actually I got tired of repairing the poor old 2LT engine
My EGT's (check my sig line, I have gauges) have never gone over 600F, with my foot floored and the engine loaded. My pyro is mounted pre-turbo, and IIRC anything over 1350F for extended periods of time shortens the engine life (cumilitative damage, according to the Banks website)
You've got some serioiusly flawed assumptions here.

There is absolutely no purpose to crank the boost past approx. 12.5 psi. The engine won't give any more fuel and the IAT is simply raised for no purpose.

Many folks, including myself, have the boost above 12.5 (the SD is currently at 13.5) and found that it's overboosted. I intend to reduce boost to the factory limit of 12.5 because the additional boost is not accomplishing anything in terms of performance.

The ALDA simply serves to limit fuel when the engine is not under boost. It has no control over the maximum fuel available when under full boost. You can tweak it until the cows come home and you cannot effect the performance of the vehicle at maximum power.

If you crank up the boost and crank up the fuel, you are in serious jeapordy of melting a piston. The engine will run way over 1200°F. in very short order.

Your EGT's are well over 600°F. when under maximum power. If you hold maximum power for an extended period, I'd bet that your are climbing past 1200°F. You've got a serious issue with the measurement system and I'd strongly advise you to correct it prior to continuing on the path of destruction of your engine.
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  #11  
Old 07-28-2006, 01:01 PM
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Here is what you need "samson's 3DB".

Engine Mechanical:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=142400

Diesel Injection:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=142405

Fuel Delivery:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=142399



Have a great day.
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2006, 08:44 PM
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Cranking up the boost beyond factory spec will get you more power to a certain point. According to the finns that point is at 14.5 psi for the factory turbo. Beyond that point the trubo becomes inefficient and requires a different turbo.

Increasing boost while injecting the same amount of fuel drops combustion chamber temperatures because there is more air to heat. It also allows you to extract more power from the same amount of fuel by increasing the efficiency of the diesel cycle. As you get diminishing returns from the amount of excess air added to the combustion cycle, you will reach a point where compressing the air takes more energy than you get back from the increased efficiency.

Understanding how cramming more air than you need increases efficiency is a little hard to grasp. The easiest conceptual way to look at it is more energy goes into heating the working fluid(air) and less goes into heating the engine. The more techical reason has to do with specific heat ratio of the combustion gasses (Reffer to the blue text in this link for an answer on how that works http://courses.washington.edu/me341/oct22v2.htm ). Fuel also tends to burn quicker and more completely under higher boost pressure. There are other reason as well.

Since you have the extra air with more boost and lower combustion temperatures you can add even more fuel to get even more power. Since most people want the most power possible this is what everybody does. Since everybody does it this way some people assume that all the power comes from the added fuel which is not the case. Convincing them otherwise is a very difficult task not matter how many techical papers and experiment reports you site.

The most boost I know of someone running in the OM617 engine and not blowing a gasket is 26 psi for a short burst. I can't say that this is good for the rings, main bearings, and rod bearings. I'm also sure he was darn close to fragging his compressor wheel. He has since limited the boost to 20 psi.
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2006, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnClark

Increasing boost while injecting the same amount of fuel drops combustion chamber temperatures because there is more air to heat. It also allows you to extract more power from the same amount of fuel by increasing the efficiency of the diesel cycle. As you get diminishing returns from the amount of excess air added to the combustion cycle, you will reach a point where compressing the air takes more energy than you get back from the increased efficiency.
I've heard this argument before regarding higher IAT's and lower exhaust temperatures........but have never seen any data to support it.

I'd still like to see how you get lower exhaust temperatures from a higher temperature charge??

Got any data?
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2006, 11:15 PM
ForcedInduction
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without an intercooler to lower the IAT's, cranking up the boost will just heat the air more than anything else.
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  #15  
Old 07-29-2006, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction
without an intercooler to lower the IAT's, cranking up the boost will just heat the air more than anything else.
Yes, that's my thought as well.

I'd like to see some evidence of lower EGT's with higher IAT's.............that would be quite some efficiency from the engine..........and I seriously doubt it.

Now, what I might accept is slightly lower EGT's as compared to the increased IAT. If the IAT climbs by 100°F. due to a boost increase (with no additional fuel) and the EGT climbs by 75°F., then the argument can be made that the engine is operating slightly more efficient. But, to see an absolute decrease in EGT's with an corresponding increase in IAT's would be quite the engineering feat.

Where's the data?

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