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#1
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what to clean out injector chambers?
I am having problems starting my TD and so I pulled all the injectors. I know I will need new heat shields, so I have a set coming from phil... (is that 2.25 each shield or for a set?) anyway, the injectors and everything in the injector area are covered with a pretty good coat of carbon. what should I use to clean them up? I was thinking of a wire brush and some carb cleaner, but I don't want to mess something up. kinda afraid of letting some steel wires broken off down in the injector pc...
anxiously awaiting a clue. John
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#2
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Soot is normal, but loads of soft, fluffy stuff usually isn't. There is always a thin coating of dry soot in the prechambers. Wet, sticky, or oily deposits are not normal.
DO NOT use a wire brush!!!! You will likely damage the pintle (it sticks out of the nozzle) and if a wire breaks off, it can cause all sorts of internal damage to the cylinder. Low compression, late injection (and valve) timing, and bad nozzles will result in carbon fouling. So will extended low speed, light throttle running. Excessive oil consumption will also cause carbon fouling, oily this time. Do an "Italian tuneup" next chance you get. Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles 1988 300E 200,012 1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles 1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000 1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs! |
#3
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The Factory service Manual says:
"Using brass brush, remove carbon deposits from end face of nozzle body, chiefly around nozzle orifice." Danny
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1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles OBK member #23 (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination |
#4
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how many miles on those injectors? The size of the nozzle exit is if I remember correctly about that of a fine human hair (read: realllllly small) and therefore difficult to clean without very good wire brushes (they show the kit in the FSM).
So if you have lots of miles and want smooth running injectors, just get phil to throw in a set of bosio nozzles for you too. more money, but worth it in the long run.
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1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD 1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project) 2007 Pinarello F3:13 1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff) 1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD) |
#5
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But not in the prechamber.
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'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88 '01 VW Beetle TDI '05 Jeep Liberty CRD '89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T '78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110 Oil Burner Kartel #35 http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg |
#6
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mostly i was talking about the seat where the heat shields go... I was going to gently clean the carbon off the injectors, if I don't just replace them. I ahve looked at the ones on ebay, that come with the shields and return hose... but I am going to try the used ones from my parts car first...
thanks though. I have no intention of putting anything inside the prechambers. although, to describe the look of the carbon on the uvula looking thing (pintle?) inside, it is coated with a hard layer of carbon, it may be wet, but it is not powdery. as soon as I get it running a good lm diesel purge is first, then a solid italian tuneup on I-85. Thanks for the quote from the fsm, a brass brush sounds like a good idea, should I use gasoline or carb cleaner? or should I just scrape it? John
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#7
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Since you've got the injectors out already, you should condsider making a pop tester out of a grease gun. Check out this thread, from about post #18 down for instructions on how to make one out of a grease gun. Its really easy and relatively cheap to do(less than $50). If you buy injectors, you're gambling that they will open at the right pressure and have the proper spray pattern. Don't be discouraged from used ones, though. Even new Bosch injectors right out of the box are bad more often than they should be. Being able to test and adjust your injectors is very satisfying and suprisingly easy.
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Seth 1984 300D 225K 1985 300D Donor body 1985 300D Turbo 165K. Totaled. Donor Engine. It runs!!! 1980 300SD 311K My New Baby. 1979 BMW 633csi 62K+++? Dead odo |
#8
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Yes your right. About the only thing I would do with a prechamber with the head still on is pull them out.
VStech is kind of confusing on what he's describing. Quote:
Quote:
Danny
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1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles OBK member #23 (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination |
#9
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"There is no pintle in the prechamber. The pintle is part of the injector."-Danny
There is what we on this site have been describing as a pintle in the precombustion chamber. It is below the hole for the glow plug and is a rod across the middle of the precombustion chamber with a rounded section in it's middle... the purpose is to help break up the spurt of fuel from the injector... before it reaches the 5-7 radial holes in the bottom of the precombustion chamber.... In the archives you will find descriptions of people taking out the injector and looking down into the precombustion chamber and seeing only a little ball loose in the bottom... that is the center section if the rest of the rod gets burned away... and of course really messes with the tiny holes meant to spread out the fuel in the combustion chamber. The only way to clean the precombustion chamber properly is to take it out of the head. Greg |
#10
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A soak over night in some transmission fluid may help.
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green 85 300SD 200K miles "Das Schlepper Frog" With a OM603 TBO360 turbo ( To be intercooled someday )( Kalifornistani emissons ) white 79 300SD 200K'ish miles "Farfegnugen" (RIP - cracked crank) desert storm primer 63 T-bird "The Undead" (long term hibernation) http://ecomodder.com/forum/fe-graphs/sig692a.png |
#11
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sorry again. I was responding to two questions.
the first part I was talking about the seat that is below the heat shield.
the second part of the statement was that I would just gently scrape the carbon off the bottom of the injector itself and not really worry about any particular way of cleaning them. now, when I finally removed all the heat shields, (#3 was a BIG pain if the #@$#) tons of carbon all over the threads and the shield was TOTALLY covered in carbon. I scraped the convex area where the shields sit until they were nice and clean, then sprayed tons of PB blaster in there and vacuumed it all out with a shop vac through the GP holes. I put used heat shields and injectors from my parts car that was running well when the head gasket blew... anyway I bled out the injector lines tightened everything up, installed pencil glow pluggs rewired for parallel power and presto, the sucker fired right up! yes my TD is now a running, Driving vehicle! Yea me. John
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#12
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AKA the "diffuser element"
http://www.kenrockwell.com/190d/index.htm
"THE ENGINE'S REMARKABLE PROWESS is due, at least in part, to the advanced design of Mercedes-Benz LVP prechambers. ("LVP" is derived from the German words for high performance, low fuel consumption and reduced particulate emissions.) Because combustion begins within these cylinder-head cavities, the powerplant's efficiency is significantly affected by variables in prechamber engineering. The LVP concept places each injector nozzle off-center and incorporates a diffuser element to stimulate mixing of air and fuel, thereby improving combustion" Quote:
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1999 E300DT (131,800) 154,000 Black on Black SOLD 2006 CLK 500 coupe Capri Blue on Grey (zoom,zoom) 47,000mi 04 VW TDI Passat 80,000mi (Techno) How to eliminate oil dependency through market-driven approaches. “We could cut oil use in half by 2025, and by 2040, oil use could be zero,” The Sound of Diesel Speed Ode to MB Last edited by whunter; 01-11-2010 at 03:48 PM. Reason: attached picture |
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