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Very interesting take on "rebuilt" injectors..
Anyone read the description care to hold forth?
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Up for sale VIA buy it now is 5 Mercedes W123 W126 turbo diesel fuel injectors and a installation kit which includes heat shields OEM cloth fuel return line and an installation manual so you will get them installed correctly this installation kit cost $30 however I include it and shipping for one low buy it now price of $130.00 with a 30 day money back guarantee so you have plenty of time to have them independently tested which most BOSCH service centers will do for free or nearly free. These are the correct diesel fuel injectors for the 1982 to 1985 Mercedes W123 or 1981 to 1985 W126 300SD 5 cylinder turbo diesel engines. They have been ultrasonically cleaned using an industrial cleaner and aqua solution designed specifically for cleaning diesel injectors. All 5 have passed all bench tests required by BOSCH and Mercedes with results much closer to new than to used and test better than that required of a freshly rebuilt set. They pop between 135bar and 137bar. Included is enough OEM fuel return line to replace yours the correct end of line plug for the last injector and 5 new heat shields which are also crush washers therefore the must not be reused under any circumstance except to drive to the dealer to buy a replacement and change it in the dealers parking lot. If that is unclear reusing the heat shield will destroy your injector buy allowing hot combustion gasses to enter the precision valve enclosed in the virtually indestructible housing designated a KCA injector body . There is a fair amount of wrong information on eBay about these injectors like they work in W116 300SD wrong So I jotted a little information about the workings and testing of injectors first being a DYIR you may have tried disassembling cleaning and testing your present set of injectors using that nice equipment you bought off EBay of course there are no instructions for the equipment sold on eBay or any where this is simply because BOSCH charges a great amount of money for this information. So you are confused your injectors work worse after you carefully cleaned them following the little bit of instructions from MBZ.org or other net sources this is directed at those poor soles that have taken this path I bet it would have helped you a whole lot if you knew the pintal does not rotate in the seat. It just moves in and out wearing a sweet spot so when you put it back together your odds of having the pintal rotated so the wear in the nozzle matched the wear in the seat wear about 0 Mercedes recommends using the BOSCH cleaning kit with the appropriate size pin to clean out the pintal hole. Guess what that is not how BOSCH or any injector shop does it you can spend hours of trial and error trying to get the sweet spot lined up again not to mention pulling all your hair out. The way it is really done is with an ultrasonic cleaner KENT MORE tools is the major manufacturer of these. You dissemble the injector removing the nozzle assembly then with out rotating the pintal you pull it away from the seat set them in the cleaner tray and let the magic of ultrasonic cleaning remove all the carbon microscopically clean. Ultrasonic cleaners are truly amazing when used with the correct cleaning solution for the job. Some shops use very fine diamond lapping compound to reface the seats this is not recommend by Mercedes and I do not do it if cleaning does not do the job in the trash it goes., I strongly recommend you get any injectors you buy for your car tested by an authorized BOSCH service center If you buy so called new injectors there actually rebuilt in 2002 BOSCH took all there manufacturing out of Europe and have had a terrible time making decent rebuild parts you would be nuts at this time to put those in your car with out having them tested the reported failure rate is still around 2 out of 5. There are some aftermarket companies coming on line such as bozzoi which hold some promise. If you just need an injector to replace a knocking one email me I have a few single Mercedes turbo diesel injectors If you have any questions ask away even if your trying to fix your own and need advice feel free to ask. Some injector information do remember the injector is only one part of the fuel atomization the pre-chamber ball is as important and the installation instructions explain how to check this key part. The W123 injector is a center hole pintle nozzle sometimes called an ‘anti-knock’ nozzle injector. When ejection pressure is reached the needle is lifted against the spring releasing and atomizing fuel in a series of rapid pulses giving a characteristic ‘buzz’ as the needle opens and closes. The initial pulse comes through the 0,20mmØ pintle jet followed by the main charge releasing around the pintle and through the jet. Spray quality or degree of atomization this is really the bottom line for the injector’s serviceability and performance and the key to this is exclusively the condition of the nozzle needle seating and the pintle jet. Held at 90% of the ejection pressure there must be no sign of any seepage at the pintle. Assessing the spray quality is subjective and there lies the problem for a DIY’er you can’t learn from a book what the proper spray looks like or judge weather the buzz or chatter sounds right you need to be taught this by an expert in the field and with experience once you have been shown all the variables that come into play when judging chatter and spray quailty Leak-off is measured by pressurizing the injector to 90% of ejection pressure and then isolating it from the test pump. The time taken in seconds for the pressure to drop 20bar is recorded for comparison. Mismatched leak-off has exactly the same effect as a pump out of calibration What is referred to as pop pressure is the pressure measured in bar that fuel starts to spray past the pintal this is adjusted by special shims which are hardened through to 58 Rockwell and no substitute soft material may be used these shims are ground to the right thickness starting from the few standard thickness sizes available from BOSCH at least ten percent of all used injectors I come across have soft metal shims which are totally unacceptable Finally the right injector must be used for each application there are a lot of BOSCH KCA injectors that look just like the Mercedes injectors and even have the same pop pressure measured in bar that while they look open at the same pressure the internals are not the same and as an example the the W116 300SD turbo diesel injector seems to be the same as the Mercedes W123 turbo diesel injector they have a different angle of spray and are not interchangeable. The Mercedes BOSCH injector housing is known as a KCA housing and holds many manufacturers different pintal and seats that are totally incorrect for the Mercedes W123 even though the housing and pop pressure is the same they are not compatible that is not to say your car wont start and run in some cases much smoother and quieter than with the correct injector but you will have a loss or increase in performance a loss or increase in MPG plus small problems like coking your rings burning the pre combustion chambers expensive stuff like that. Finally any one that says the chatter test does not apply to the injectors made since 1976 must be selling untested junk yard injectors because they sure don’t know how to test them. Here are a couple of my almost 75 sets of injectors sold on EBay feedbacks I just have not and no longer will be doing it due to health concern shortly I will be selling all my equipment and parts including two BOSH test stations 2 industrial ultrasonic cleaners and if some one is interested lots of injectors that need to be cleaned lapped with a few hundred hardened washers. Here are a couple of feed backs. I can not say enough good about this ebayer. Highly recommended. Thank you! Buyer rock-ur-world ( 33 ) Oct-06-06 18:58 270034747416 AAA+++ ONE OF THE BEST I HAVE EVER DEALT WITH. TRUE ASSET TO EBAY! Buyer kdh333 ( 30 ) Dec-03-05 15:14 8011243408 Reply by davesidlauskas: Thank you very much another set of great injectors finds a good home Dec-03-05 15:48 Item better than listed very very happy will buy again thank you !!!!!! Buyer jeo25blue ( 78 ) Dec-19-05 16:58 8019905281 Reply by davesidlauskas: Your welcome he got a tested good set of Mercedes diesel fuel injectors The best customer service to date on E-BAY outstanding Buyer winn-winn ( 84 ) I have put some spare parts in the box that may come in handy one day. Thanks Dave S Dave S
:rolleyes5 EDIT: Notice the different injector bodies. http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/a7/1e/5f_1.JPG |
Not an English major either ! Let's hope the injectors perform better.
If you think a major in English is of no consequence, check out those who have one. ( Being as this thread is heading towards the record for longest post on any thread..without punctuation...(( except Botnst...that is )).................:D ) As might be expected, a large number of writers hold degrees in English. The list includes Douglas Adams: SciFi writer; wrote Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series; Dirk Gently series Gwendolyn Brooks: poems include "We Real Cool" Tom Clancy: suspense writer; Clear and Present Danger Allen Ginsberg: Beat Generation poet; poems include Howl Joseph Heller: author of Catch-22 David Henry Hwang: author of Madame Butterfly Stephen King: extraordinarily successful and prolific author of horror fiction; writings range from Carrie through The Green Mile and The Stand to the short story on which the movie "Stand by Me" is based Bobbie Ann Mason: short story writer; collections include Shiloh Arthur Miller: playwright most noted for Death of a Salesman and The Crucible Toni Morrison: author of Beloved Joyce Carol Oates: prolific author Philip Roth: esteemed Jewish author Amy Tan: author of The Joy Luck Club John Updike: most noted for the "Rabbit" books, from Run, Rabbit, Run to Rabbit at Rest Eudora Welty: highly esteemed southern author Then there are those who have majored in English who have made non-traditional use of their degrees, including Russell Baker: journalist Dave Barry: humorist, writer, actor Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: television writer/producer (Designing Women, Evening Shade) Carol Browner: former Head of the Environmental Protection Agency Chevy Chase: comedian, actor, writer Mario Cuomo: former Governor of New York John Cuzack: actor David Duchovny: actor Michael Eisner: former Walt Disney CEO Jodie Foster: actor, filmmaker Kathryn Fuller: World Wildlife Fund CEO Cathy Guisewite: cartoonist (Cathy) Famke Janssen: actor Tommy Lee Jones: actor Kris Kristofferson: songwriter, actor Michael Lynne: Co-Chairman and Co-CEO of New Line Cinema Paul Newman: actor, food entrepreneur Joe Paterno: football coach (Penn State University) Sally Ride: astronaut Joan Rivers: comedienne Diane Sawyer: broadcast journalist Herb Scannell: President, Nickolodeon Networks, MTV Networks Group President Paul Simon: songwriter, singer Steven Spielberg: filmmaker Marty Schottenheimer: Coach of San Diego Chargers Christopher Reeve: late actor, activist for the disabled Clarence Thomas: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Emma Thompson: actor Grant Tinker: TV Executive and Producer Harold Varmus: Nobel laureate in medicine, former Director of National Institutes of Health Barbara Walters: broadcast journalist Sigourney Weaver: actor Pete Wilson: former Governor of California Bob Woodward: journalist, wrote All the President's Men Renee Zellweger: actor . |
How many of the English majors above change their own oil? :P
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Those different-looking injector bodies make me wonder! Is that OK that they seem to have different body lengths and on some slightly different thread lengths, or is that suspect of something here?
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Really? :confused: |
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AFAIK, no. |
116 and 126 SD injectors have the same part #.
This guy is a moron. I would not let somebody who can not write a complete sentence touch injectors for my car. :rolleyes: |
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But there is always some fool on ebay. :) |
What, in God's good name, does good punctuation and grammar have to do with a man's ability to rebuild injectors? I certainly would rather have a mechanic that knows his work and does it well than one that can spout Shakespeare and write like Keats. I am dyslexic and a hopeless speller but I can do quite good mechanics, welding, fitting, etc., etc. And I'm a pretty nice guy on top of it. And modest too.
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my injectors all say rebuilt on them and they are all the same height
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I wrote to this seller and asked him about why the injectors have different lengths, and this was his reply:
"The two injectors that have shorter bodies are remanufactured; in this process sometimes the ends of the injectors are ground down. It has no effect on the injectors." |
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I don't understand, is forced induction selling these injectors on ebay then? how much for a set off ebay? what about the 116 sd story, the engine is the same I thought? why different injectors?
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I'm not selling them. I just copied the auction text to here so that the thread will still have meaning after the auction is gone from eBay.
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ok. I just had 16 random injectors tested and put 5 'good' ones in my 116 sd. some of them had different numbers on them indeed. it runs and idles exactly thesame as before, when it had 5 completely bad injectors in it. (ran it on veg oil for the summer) I think the injector doesn't make too much a difference. maybe in MPG. as long as the engine gets the fuel, it's ok. the pressure will burn it all anyway. hooray to the precombustionchamber.
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All the injector in these needs to do is pop at the right pressure and shoot straight. The ball in the precombustion chamber does all the atomizing.
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Yeah...those qualities really shine through, don't they ? :laugh: Anyone who is presenting themselves as an authority, as indeed he is, needs to have someone else do the write up if they are admittedly sort on the English....to maintain the standards that they are trying to sell. It has to be said, that he is trying very hard to put over his product as superior...no ? Whether or not you can write eloquently or not is never a reflection on the quality or effort you put into manual work unless you are trying to sell your work on quality, as he is. . |
I'm not a Bosch Expert, but....
G'mornin' Guys,
I read and re-read the ad for those injectors.....in my humble opinion, there is a bunch of both good and bad info in that fella's writeup of his injectors. Personally, I am a USCG Lisenced Marine Chief Engineer, Steam and Motor, Unlimited Horsepower.....but I have been retired for the past 10 years. A couple of years after my retirement, I took a job at a Fuel Injection, Test and Calibration Shop ( I was getting bored). This particular shop also rebuilt Turbochargers....therefore I have seen and operated all of the various testing equipment that that particular shop had. To include digital fuel injector popping equipment, and digital high speed balancers for the turbos. I have never heard of the "sweet spot" that the injector's seller discusses. However I have lapped fuel injector nozzles and pintles with talcum powder, yup, talcum powder.....was also taught never ever to touch needles and guides, pintles, delivery valves, and plunger/barrel sets with my fingers, unless my fingers had a good coating of diesel fuel...as the oils in one's skin can actually etch the highly machined surfaces......was also taught never to put any of the mating surfaces, metal to metal fit, together with any form of oil, dry only, because even a molecule of oil will eventually cause a leak.....please note I am referring to non moving metal to metal surfaces that seal the injector or the injection pump. As, I am a do-it-yourselfer, these days...and I have no popping bench, calibration equipment, special tools, and a very clean area in which to work. as well as easy access to special parts and shims. If / when I feel the need to overhaul my injectors or injection pump.....I will take it/them to a reputable "Injection Shop" for testing and necessary repairs/replacement of parts. The buzz that the seller speaks of...is a true fact...however, I do not know if it applies to these specific injectors...one needs to look this data up on a computer with a Bosch CD ROM, or if they are before a certain year of manufacture....on an old fashioned micro-fiche....the pop, buzz is important. The leakdown, is also important.....although it tends to manifest itself as a dribbling injection nozzle....and I suppose in theory, it could present itself as an out of calibration Injection Pump....but any leakage in pressure that would cause that, would probably be noticed as fuel running down the injection lines and engine.....leaving a nice fuel puddle under the car. As far as applications go....I am not a MB expert....however, if a manufacturer of any German equipment puts a part number on an item, it will be the same part number across their entire equipment/automotive line. BUT, bear in mind, when dealing with Fuel Injector Nozzles.....you need to check the "Fuel Injector Assembly" part number......there may be cases where the injector body will have the same part number for different applications, but the injector nozzles will have different part numbers.....therefore the "assembly" will have a different part number..... Fuel Injectors and Injection Pumps are assemblies of very specific parts, most of which are machined to very close tolerances....one could spend weeks in classes at the University level, just learning about what and why it works.....I personally would leave it to those who do injectors for a living!!! If a shop has a Bosch certification.....it will be good enough for my injectors. If/when I need to do some work in this area, I will ask a couple of MB dealerships where they send their stuff for rebuild.....also will ask the local tractor and/or heavy equipment dealerships, where they send their injectors....a good Kenworth, Peterbuilt dealership would also be a good place to ask.......Caterpillar, if the shop that they use, is also Bosch Certified, but Caterpillar injection equipment bears little resemblance to Bosch stuff...... Enuff Said, SB Please don't correct my grammar or punctuation.....I never got a degree in any of the Arts or Humanities......and I am not typing a letter that is trying to convince my boss that I need a couple of hundred grand in injection repairs..... |
moron here
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Hitman I know you I bought a part from you off this site. Too bad the best I can say is it only took 4 months to get my money back I think they call that selling parts you don’t own, fraud in some states and your final curse filled email was quite eloquently written I guess. To every one else my son who still is young and believes in maximizing the potential in every thing he does has reposted the advertisement here. He has raised the price and he will get it but that isn’t all there is in life I learned this the hard way but in the end I just smile. That’s a thirty day money back guarantee by the way Thanks for the PR Dave S The foothills of sunny NOR CAL :) :) :) ::fork_off: |
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As you have taken time to promote your son here....would you mind explaining the difference in the Injector Bodies seen in the photo of the e-Bay sale...... Thanx, SB |
Yow. Small world. I will happily proofread and edit stuff for you if you like before posting on ebay. Though the message was not worded politely it is still true. I'm dyslexic and looking at a wall of text like that makes my eyes want to crawl out the back of my head. It also diminishes the credibility of the person selling. It's like being the world's foremost expert on economics and then showing up for a speech in shorts and a tank top.
Anyway, I'd love to help and don't want anything in return. |
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You guys sound like you know what you are doing when it comes to injectors, but IMHO your add is just too long. Try to rewrite it in an outline format or something to break it up a little. I look forward to one day rebuilding and pop testing my own injectors. |
english
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Originally Posted by bgkast 116 and 126 SD injectors have the same part #. This guy is a moron. I would not let somebody who can not write a complete sentence touch injectors for my car. Since, your speaking in the first person, present, active, indictive, it should be (I would not let someone) |
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I may not be an English major, but at least I understand punctuation. :stupid: I also know how to use the quote button! ;) |
yeah
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Honestly, I don't give a hoot about the grammar......but I would like an answer to the above question.......that is something that would make a difference on how a diesel engine runs...... As I live in West Virginia, I can attest to the fact that there really are talented mechanics who do not have the literacy levels of our esteemed Califunya (and other urban) residents! SB |
Is this thread becoming a riot or what? :bowrofl: ...I think the proceedings have taken on a humous turn unmatched for many years.....
As long as invective and satire has not become vindictive, this thread is a revelation on the wit and character of those who have posted so far....just my observations, you understand.:rolleyes: In our defense to our maligned eBayer, mattdave, I say, please don't take everything as a personal attack. ....the ability to post, in what amounts to anonymity is, in effect a form of 'Dutch' courage. Nil desperandum.:) . |
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To Quote Flavor Flav.....
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But, alas (since we're grading grammar here, is it comma AFTER alas?) I love to stir the pot and I sure did:P |
I know I'm going overboard... but what the He**!
_____________________________________________________________ From Wikipedia... "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Common_grammatical_errors" Common grammatical errors Listed here are common grammatical errors in English that are usually picked up over the Internet. Note: You may find though that evolution of a language may somehow negate this. Common sentence structure mistakes Punctuation should go either inside or outside quotation marks depending on whether or not the punctuation is part of the quotation. See Wikipedia: Quotation marks. Use square brackets within parentheses when you must use parentheses again. (i.e. She spoke ironically [meaning jokingly].) Punctuation goes outside parentheses that are a part of the sentence (as in the above example or this example). They go inside the parentheses if it's actually a sentence. (e.g. She spoke ironically. [This meant she was joking.]) Use a semicolon in the place of a period when joining two sentences that share a central idea. For example: "Many people think that semicolons are used the same way as commas. They are not." → "Many people think that semicolons are used the same way as commas; however, they are not." Use an em dash (—) instead of "-" or "--". Apostrophes should be used only for contractions ("It's OK to use one here") or possessive form ("Bob's use of apostrophes is correct"). It is common and incorrect to use an apostrophe to indicate a plural ("Error's like this are annoying") except for plurals of single letters (mind your P's and Q's). Common misspellings Error → Correction. (Ordered by commonness.) "alot" → "a lot". "it's" 1 → "its". "who's" 1 → "whose". "lets" (3rd person present simple active form of the verb "to let" as in: "Bill lets his son use his credit card") → "let's" (contraction for "let us" as in: "Let's go to the store."). "todo" → "to do". "upto" → "up to". "ofcourse" → "of course". "allright" or "alright"2 → "all right". "allways" or "all ways"3 → "always". "their" → "they're". "theirselves" → "themselves". "affect" versus "effect". "buisness" → "business". "pronounciation" → "pronunciation". "arguement" → "argument". "definately", "definetely", … → "definitely". "ressource" → "resource" See Wikipedia:List_of_common_misspellings for countless others. 1 "It" and "who" are pronouns, not nouns. Therefore when they are used as possessives, they are not written like contractions "it's" ("it is") and "who's" ("who is"). 2 "Alright" is a nonstandard spelling that has become heavily used due to its analogy with similar contractions such as "always" and "almighty". Wikipedia prefers standard writing. 3 "All ways" is only written "always" if you are not referring to "all possibilities". (i.e. "She is better than him in all ways," versus, "She is always better than him.") From: http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~sustain/bio65/Common_Grammatical_Errors.htm 10 Common Grammatical Errors 1. Noun-verb mismatch, e.g. "A herd of horses are better than a flock of sheep" (?herd? is singular). ?The City feels that this is a bad idea?. (A city can?t feel) 2. Adjective used as adverb, e.g. and especially "I did good in this course" 3. Split infinitive, e.g. "I urge you to not support this Bill". 4. Misplaced modifier, e.g. "We need to stop dumping waste into the environment which kills the fish".?? TO avoid this mistake, put the modifier as close as possible to the noun it is modifying.? Repaired: "We need to stop dumping waste, which kills the fish, into the environment". ? 5. Dangling (or misplaced) participle A participial phrase at the beginning of a sentence must refer to the grammatical SUBJECT of the sentence.? Wrong: "As the largest reptiles ever to have lived, small mammals could not compete with the dinosaurs".?? This suggests that small mammals were the largest reptiles ever to have lived.? Repaired: "Being small and defenseless, small mammals could not compete with the dinosaurs". More examples). 6. Ending a sentence with a preposition, e.g. "This is something we need to work on". 7. Starting a paragraph with a conjunction that should refer to the previous sentence, e.g. "Furthermore,...", "However,..." 8. Run-on sentences (two complete sentences joined by a comma rather than a period or semicolon) ?The lab is a dangerous place, you should wear a lab coat?. (could be repaired by the addition of ?so?. 9. Incomplete sentences, including those with no verb, e.g. "These animals could be harmed by various things.? Pollution, for example." 10. Mixing up the "notorious confusables" (confusibles?)(e.g. their vs. there) |
Well, I'm no mechanic (like everyone on this forum considering real mechanics have no time to hang out on forums, don't need to, have better things to do, don't care about other peoples cartalk, are confident about what they do with benzes etc etc) and no linguist either but I do fix my own car and always have. what I found is that if you describe a problem thoroughly to a mechanic, they usually know what it is because most problems are common to a mechanic who's experienced. this said, does anyone know why my '80 sd 'misfires'?
I ran 85% WVO and 15% rug all summer. then when the first cold struck I drove it and it started to start badly and smoke. I drained the tank, put diesel in it and since then it has a misfiring cylinder. as if it burns at the wrong moment, or not at all, every now and then. very random, more when cold.sometimes every other second. the car shakes when it does that. and it shakes differently when engaged in gear. smokes too, when misfiring a lot. I changed all the injectors to good ones (4 from 123's, one from 116, pop tested) and the problem is still there. one of those injectors had different psi numbers on it. filters are new, strainer is good, diesel is good. I'm guessing the oil messed the pump up, the part where the springs and little balls sit or something. input pls, no grammatical correction |
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you boys are certified then? no offence dudes, I should have said 'most people on this forum'. don't worry about me, don't panic, I'll find out by myself. it's not that hard these 5 cylinders. it's actually the easiest car I ever worked on, after the Citroen 2cv and renault 4 that is. and the civic up to '95. obviously the manual versions of those.
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mechanic alert
ok, I know you mechanics out there are all very excited to find out what the problem with my wonderful '80 300 sd was. well, it was quite simple.
running on wvo with a broken thermostat (engine didn't get hot enough to burn every drop) and broken glowplug caused build up of black stuff in the precombustion chamber of cylinder #5, and hence bad combustion. Incredibly good as I am I took out the #5 injector and heat shield, sprayed the chamber with carburetor cleaner and let it sit for a while. then I poked around in it some with a small screwdriver. then I started the car, without the last injector in it of course, and blew all the black crud out of it. I put it all back together and voila, problem solved. and yes I used a new heat shield. and no, I'm not worried about black crud particles in my 500k+ mile engine. so please, don't be shy now, feel free to congratulate me with these accomplishments. and if anyone does decide to panic for any reason, remember to always panic with confidence! please do not reply, it might make me think that people still watch this threat. |
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Loved it - yes,yes,yes, yeeees
How about an update - where are they now - Posters re-united They just don't make em like this anymore - laughed my bollox off |
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Guess you'd be a eunech now?:) BTW...'e wos rite.....lookee 'ere.... This Listing Is Unavailable This listing (270040867727) has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure you entered the right item number. If the listing was removed by eBay, consider it canceled. Note: Listings that have ended more than 90 days ago will no longer appear on eBay. nuff sed. . |
Well at the time we do what we always do when we find something wrong with an ad that involves the Mercedes we love… We critique it…. And sometimes whether the poster is wrong or right, we voice our opinions to look out for each other here on this forum and probably will continue to do so in the future.
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But on a sad note, this was posted by the seller’s son a few months later. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=169855 Although, I wasn't around (or was barely around) when he are active. My understanding he was a good member to this forum. |
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