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  #1  
Old 11-22-2006, 06:48 PM
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TDI or 190D?????

My 87 300 D is running fine but would like to replace it with another diesel car and the field is limited. My girlfriend drives a 02 VW-TDI and it is as far as I see a good running and trouble free diesel...so far..she only has 88K on the clock so in my opinion the jury is still out on the sm 4 cylinder VW diesels. REMEMBER..early 80's diesel equipped VOLVO cars (six cylinder) 240 series, had what turned out to be the world's worst diesel cars...those diesel engines were made by Volks Wagon....Here previous diesel Golf, proved good......so how are these TDI cars?

I had a 190E and did like it and figure that if equipped with the 601, is that correct, the 5 cyl version of the 603........35mpg range?

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  #2  
Old 11-22-2006, 07:05 PM
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This topic has been beaten to death here. Do a search and read all about it. I like VW diesels and have owned a few. Currently love our '03 Jetta TDI. The only 190 I would want is the turbo and they are rare. A TDI will cruise quieter, faster and more efficiently. Some will say you can't fix it yourself, but you can, you just need to become a little computer savy. Check out www.tdiclub.com

Regarding the VW longevity, there are many, many VW diesels over the 300K mark, including a few TDI's. The Volvo diesels were in fact VW diesels. They had issues since VW just stretched the 4 cylinder to a 6 cylinder. Some of these issues can be remedied if you plan on keeping them up and running. So VW had a bad engine with the Volvo diesels. Big deal. MB is still haunted by the 3.5liter diesel. The VW 4 cylinders are good engines.

RT
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2006, 08:20 PM
fj bertrand's Avatar
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My son drives a 98 TDI bought with 189K on the clock for $4.9K Now, with 212K and runs well. Oil testing reveals no excessive wear and all readings within norms. I vote for the TDI as a good, dependable engine, up there with my MB 240D, my favorite Diesel MB
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2006, 08:26 PM
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The '06.5 1.9l TDI looks a bit weak at 100 hp, but with 177 lb-ft of torque, its more than just drivable. It's really a lot of fun.
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2006, 09:06 PM
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I take issue with the Tdi being "quieter, faster, and more efficient".

It is quiet enough, fast enough, and efficient enough, but i've had both.

In comparison the 190D turbo is a very quick car, rides nice, and the Jetta/Golf rides like a Corvette/truck. Depending on the year and mileage, the Tdi maintenance can be $$ also.

The 190D 2.5turbo is quiet, takes off from a stop with a smooth automatic transmission, and mine will get between 37mph and 42mpg highway (60mph and 75-80mph respectively) with a comfortable max. cruise around 120mph.

Yes they're a little hard to find, but there are some nice ones out there.

They gave me a new Jetta loaner at the stealership when my 4matic was in for a checkup, what a tin-can. I don't dislike VW btw, I've had 16 so far and currently have two here, plus an Audi, the Mercedes is much more trouble-free and parts are cheaper.

If you're near W. Michigan I'll happily show you around my 190D.

JMO
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2006, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
I take issue with the Tdi being "quieter, faster, and more efficient".

It is quiet enough, fast enough, and efficient enough, but i've had both.

In comparison the 190D turbo is a very quick car, rides nice, and the Jetta/Golf rides like a Corvette/truck. Depending on the year and mileage, the Tdi maintenance can be $$ also.

The 190D 2.5turbo is quiet, takes off from a stop with a smooth automatic transmission, and mine will get between 37mph and 42mpg highway (60mph and 75-80mph respectively) with a comfortable max. cruise around 120mph.

Yes they're a little hard to find, but there are some nice ones out there.

They gave me a new Jetta loaner at the stealership when my 4matic was in for a checkup, what a tin-can. I don't dislike VW btw, I've had 16 so far and currently have two here, plus an Audi, the Mercedes is much more trouble-free and parts are cheaper.

If you're near W. Michigan I'll happily show you around my 190D.

JMO
Yes, I wiould agree about the ride difference.........I'm using my 300D as comparison, but I've found MB cars to ride and feel better than almost any car so finding a good 190 D turbo version sounds like I'm interested for such........availability is my only obstacle it seems and with that I may not find one unless I want to travel far and spend big sooo I guess if unless one drops out of the sky in front of me I may end up with a TDI......we get spoiled with our MB's don't we?
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2006, 07:21 PM
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TDI's are good cars; they CERTAINLY don't ride and drive like a Benz but what does? i have a TDI and i'm reasonably happy with it. That said, new diesels will be coming to our shores in the next year or two. If you need a new diesel car now, buy one. If you can wait, that would probably be better.
Competition will bring down the high cost of new TDI's and who knows, you might find a CTDi Accord or a diesel Maxima that catches your fancy.
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2006, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post

If you're near W. Michigan I'll happily show you around my 190D.

JMO
Really? I live in W. Michigan and I've never ridden in a 190d before....
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2006, 07:41 PM
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I feel that my TDI rides smoother and softer than my Benzes, but that's probably due to age. But the E300 feels like it could take a sharp turn better than the Jetta, though I've never done actual testing of that sort. A manual VW TDI, especially 2005 or older, is definitely more fuel efficient than a 190D turbo. The non-turbo 190D is a bit more efficient than the turbo version, but a lot weaker. I'd choose a TDI over a 190D, but that's just me.
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  #10  
Old 11-27-2006, 07:55 PM
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I love my TDI, but have never driven an equivalent small car MB to compare against. I love the MPG, being trouble-free, reliability (compared to my older cars) and it's just generally a fun car to drive. Sure, the Benz is going to be more solid, but they don't get as good a mileage and unless you do suspension modifications, a 190D is certainly not going to be as fun to drive. Especially after replacing the stock 14" wheels on my TDI with 17" GTI wheels.

The MkIV Golf/Jetta is old enough that there are *plenty* of them at the junk yard, and it's been my experience so far that maintenance costs are extremely low. I've spent much, much more $$ on my 87 300TDT in 2 weeks than I have in a year and a half of owning my 02 Golf TDI. That includes the timing belt job that was done about 6 months ago once I hit 70k. It's been my experience that shop labor always costs me more $$ for my MBs than my VWs. That's either because the hourly is higher or because jobs just take longer.

If you keep the RPMs around 3200, you can get 55 mpg easy with a Golf TDI. There is no way you can ever squeeze that out of a 190D.

You can also chip a TDI to output more HP/Torque and also actually improve MPG. ( http://www.upsolute.com/db/new/datenblatt_eng.php?ID_Marke=6&ID=389 ). I haven't done mine yet, but plan to when I save up the money.
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Last edited by justinperkins; 11-27-2006 at 08:02 PM.
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  #11  
Old 11-27-2006, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
I take issue with the Tdi being "quieter, faster, and more efficient".

It is quiet enough, fast enough, and efficient enough, but i've had both.

In comparison the 190D turbo is a very quick car, rides nice, and the Jetta/Golf rides like a Corvette/truck. Depending on the year and mileage, the Tdi maintenance can be $$ also.

The 190D 2.5turbo is quiet, takes off from a stop with a smooth automatic transmission, and mine will get between 37mph and 42mpg highway (60mph and 75-80mph respectively) with a comfortable max. cruise around 120mph.

Yes they're a little hard to find, but there are some nice ones out there.

They gave me a new Jetta loaner at the stealership when my 4matic was in for a checkup, what a tin-can. I don't dislike VW btw, I've had 16 so far and currently have two here, plus an Audi, the Mercedes is much more trouble-free and parts are cheaper.

If you're near W. Michigan I'll happily show you around my 190D.

JMO
Jeff,

I agree on most of what you say about the 190D T but no matter how I drive mine I can get no more than 32 mpg. I have talked with a couple of owners of 190 2.5 N.A. models and they claim 35 to 37 mpg. Did you "tune" anything to get your millage or am I just un-lucky?

I would like a ride in yours too.

Buzz
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1981 300SD 450K DB753 Astral Silver w/Black
1987 190D Turbo 340K DB199 Black Pearl w/Black
1990 350SDL 190K DB199 Black Pearl w/Black
1994 E320 Convertible 65K DB(9)744 Brilliant Silver w/Grey
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2006, 08:16 PM
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my 2000 jetta tdi is just about 8000 miles short of 300,000,and still purrs like a kitten.oil usage is about a quart and a half between changes (10,000).if you do buy one invest in a vag-com to run diagnostics and such,well worth the money,also you need it to clear the check engine light etc.also be aware that the timing belt MUST be changed at certain milages.the early ones were 40k for the auto and 60k for the manual.the new belts will go 100k on either stcik or auto.and find someone that knows how to do it.the dealerships are just gonna screw it up.

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