3.8l M116 snapped there single row chains in as little as 40k miles. The M114(I think) steering gear box tended to break off the frame. Nothing new really.

People have a very selective memory, and worry to much. If I had the money I'd be very happy driving an E320CDI vs anything in my currant fleet. Its a darn fine car simple as that.

I have to say in some aspects the rust proofing is a bit better on the W126 vs the W210. But the W210 wins hands down in the user friendly area. Whoever designed the W210's interior worked on W126's. All those pita screws and stuff that you have to remove on the W126 were done away with or are accessible on the W210. Pulling apart the interior on a W210 is such a cake walk compared to the early cars, and underneath it all looks about the same. Wood still aluminum backed, as well as most of the interior trim. Wiring is typical MB, ect.
The best made MB I have ever worked on is the W140 hands down. Its like MB took the W126 and fixed all the problem areas, and beefed it up. More complex yes but you get more toys so there is a trade. For example on the W126 they mounted there battery on the passenger side and it tends to collect crap below the tray and rot out that area. W140’s is in the trunk. On the W126 the hood pad is glued on, on the W140 its help on my twist clips so its designed to be replaced. The W140 is hands down the best MB I have worked on so far, they spent much more time on the details with that one.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Beware of reading too much into the JD Powers initial quality surveys and etc. unless you understand how the data is collected. It is a marketing tool and a very profitable one. If you've bought your cars new, you would find that they send you the survey in the first 60days of ownership. How the hell do you think that you could accurately measure the quality of an automobile in 90days? You can't. Most of my automotive problems don't manifest themselves in 90days, many not for years. If they really wanted to compare the quality of these cars they would track them for years and compare the quality. Even the "long-term" cars in most magazine staff's lots are usually only 1 year or so, and the nicest cars get driven the most and hardest, ... too many variables.

For example, when I bought my 4matic it was a fully-optioned $74,000 automobile (in '92), cost as much as some people's houses. A co-worker of mine bought a new Saturd and was thrilled with it from the start. My car was to be the replacement for my flawless quattro, and if it had so much as a rattle or squeak I'd be at the stealer getting it fixed. His car was a replacement for a rusty worn-out GM X-body and he was thrilled every time it started and made it to work. The surveys don't take into account the difference in expectations that a Mercedes-Benz buyer has.

"figures lie and liars figure"

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

money permitting, I will eventually take the w210 plunge. A 140 is just too risky.

Is the first year of the 5 spd. (1997) a problem year for that trans?

Is this motor essentially the same as the 603.96 in my 124 (minus the turbo)?

Thanks for all the input, this has been very helpful.

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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K

Years ago I owned several peugeot 504 sedans. I loved those cars, and joined the owners' group. There was a monthly newsletter--in the days before the internet--- very much like this website.
I noticed that everyone thought the quality of Peugeots declined after they bought their first one. People who had 404s thought they were superior to any 504. Owners of 1981 Peugeots thought the quality on the 1982 and later had declined.
Pretty much the same mindset as here, mine is great; anything newer sucks.
Amusing

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

"Pretty much the same mindset as here, mine is great; anything newer sucks.
Amusing"

Perhaps it is a mindset, but there is some truth to the fact that the quality is down, way down in newer cars.
I have a 240D 77 & E320 97, I bought the E320 used from the MB dealer with 30K miles on it, as I was driving the car home I reached up there to adjust the rear view mirror, boom, it broke and was hanging there with some wires holding it, with all the sensors and electronics built into the damn thing is cost me $500 to replace it, the following week someone leaned on the side mirror, it broke, $350 for that. Within 2 years the motor developed oil leak that had to be fixed, $1000. a year later transmission had to be taken down and re-installed for oil leaks, pretty darn close to another $1000. Both xenon headlights went bad, the inner electronics at $1000 each, needed new tail lights, complete assembly, the light bulb sockets are so cheap that once you remove the light bulb it destroys the computer connections, and the list goes on and on.
Mindset, amuzing? give me a break.

Vahe

There's truth to what both camps are saying here. There are some people who will bad-mouth anything that they can't afford to make themselves feel better. But people need to distinguish between that kind of baseless criticism from the objective criticism that comes from people who mostly criticize only what they own, like me. The W210 is definitely a less reliable vehicle than the W123, at least when comparing the diesel models as I don't know much about the gasoline W123's. If you look at my signature you can see that I own a W210, so there's no envy involved here. The first thing I had to do when I bought my W210 is to replace those darn spring perches that were about to snap. First though I had to do some major "diplomacy" at the local dealer and settle for paying 50% of the expenses. The W210 is also highly prone to fuel leaks because there's rubber and cheap plastic everywhere in the fuel system. The dashboard material is a joke and if your dash hasn't started cracking yet, consider yourself very lucky. And random shutdowns on the highway aren't uncommon either because of the poor-quality soldering in the K40 relay. On the plus side, the W210 is a much more refined vehicle than the W123. It's more spacious, efficient, quieter, and has nice features like air recirculation that the W123 is sorely missing.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Well put, like you I can only comment on cars that I and my friends own, and that I have worked on.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

So what years were these engines made? As I said previously I'm not very familiar with the gasoline engines.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

My grandmother gave me my 300SD. she "Upgraded" to a 96 E300 Diesel. she liked it at first. i drove it and it drives like a dream. problem is it has a ton of problems. Her and I don't have much we talk about anymore... except the mercedes, so it is our bonding point. she told me over thinksgiving that her head gasket has blown. she is planning on getting it fixed, but it is only the most recent in a long list of problems she has had. compair that to my car and my uncels (grandmas son) 85 300CD who are running fine. It can't just be a point of view thing.

Now my anut is talking to her brothers about getting grandma a new car. she is a big toyota fan. she is trying to get grandma to trade the Mercedes in for a Lexua or Acura. I understand that Grandma needs a good car, so i'm happy they are thinking about her, but i'm upset that i'm going to loose my "Mercedes Bond" with my grandma.

I wish that quality was better in the 90s.... this is directly effecting my family.

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I'd like to hear from the people that own a 210. From what I've read so far, it doesn't look like I'd be much better off than with a rod bender, at least I would have the nice amenities.

What other choices do I have? I want a newer Benz diesel. Can't buy a 140 can't buy a 210, can't afford anything newer. Where do I go, the new Honda diesel ? Or I suppose I could go with an early 90's 124 but that is essentially what I have now. I guess I am just stuck. Any suggestions?

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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K

"Where do I go, the new Honda diesel"

After owning and driving Mercedes for about 32 years, the last 28 were diesel MB, the time has come for me to move on to something else, I would definitely consider Honda diesel. MB really has nothing attractive for me and what they have are too expensive to buy and maintain. The main difference between the older 123/126 diesels and the new models is the practical side of the life expectancy, with the older cars you can go for a looooong time, with the newer cars you must get rid of them when the warranty expires.

Vahe
240D 77

Have you considered a VW TDI? It may not be a Benz (ok, it's not), but it has many of the features that I was looking for and that MBUSA hasn't provided me with: a modestly priced car with high fuel economy, good reliability, good performance, manual transmission, and no fancy gadgets that break down.

BTW my W210 was on Ebay for sale a month ago or so, but I was totally repulsed by people's lack of appreciation for all the work and fixes that I've done to the car so I decided to take it off the market. It seems that most people just want to have a free lunch and they don't give a damn.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Just curious, why do you "want" a newer model? What is the advantage over what you have now?

"Have you considered a VW TDI? It may not be a Benz (ok, it's not), but it has many of the features that I was looking for and that MBUSA hasn't provided me with: a modestly priced car with high fuel economy, good reliability, good performance, manual transmission, and no fancy gadgets that break down."

I had a real nasty experience with VW dealerships and specifically their service department. Some years ago I bought a brand new VW Jetta for my daughter who started college, the car from day one was consuming too much oil, we live in Houston and she had to drive 200 miles to San Antonio where the college was located, after each 200 miles trip the car needed a quart or even more. We complained but the dealership went out of their way not to do anything about the problem or be helpful in any way. After much arguing they did gave in and did a complete ring job on the nearly new engine, it did not help.
After that experience I am not about to do business with VW again.

Vahe
240D 77 350K

Early 80's. Problem was fixed in about 84, still it is a weak design.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200