I know these cars will last a long dependable life with the right maintinence, but do you have a cut point,mileage speaking .I was looking at an 84 190d 2.2 last month and was curious espicailly with this motor and trannie.

It has been mentioned many times by many posters that condition is everything. The odometer is not a reliable guide in my opinion as too many failures affect their odometers plus so many have been spun back. You might be looking at something with the original milage posted for example. It is not unusual to see a 123 for example on ebay with 300k posted that is in far better shape than one with a claimed 200k. Plus if you get a car someone has cared for even at high milage it might be okay. If the car has it's complete and accurate service records from the beginning is a real bonus as well. You will see what has been done over the years that should not fail soon. Otherwise you usually have no knowledge when the engine ar transmiison had a rebuild for example and what exactly was done at the time. A car with high milage and no information is a real gamble to some extent.

Too many variables:

- present condition?

- documented service history?

- original engine and transmission?

- steering and suspension work?

- are you looking for a keeper or something to make it through the winter?

- are you looking for something to drive into the ground or resell?

- are you a DIYer or will you pay someone to keep it running?

Typically resale value starts to taper at 150K miles, drops faster above 250K miles, you basically have to sell it for parts beyond 350K miles. That's my observation. There are many exceptions. There are cars that are in superb shape beyond 350K miles but most buyers see the odometer and shy away.

Sixto
93 300SD

Miles is a tough one. My 78 240D with 260k miles starts easier than my 82 300TD with 160k miles. And the 240 doesn't have blue smoke on start up like the 300TD does. The interior is about the same condition on both. I think like stated previously, after 250k is when things start to wear out pretty good. You don't see many with more than 300k on the clock, but lots of people have cars with 250k

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Miles tells nothing...a few weeks ago I looked at a 300d that the seller lied about, had 107k on it, a 1985 300d....it was EXTREMELY rotted out and rusty, and the paint looked like it had been through a heavy dose of acid or something, it was rough to the touch! Engine/tranny were probably ok but the car itself was a parts car, I bet the suspension would have collapsed on the first pothole, I'd never seen rust that bad before. They wanted $1300 for it, they're insane. Maybe 300 for the whole thing for parts.

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

Many of us like to state that "condition is everything" and the "mileage is nothing".

But, these fellows fail to realize that the engine, transmission, and differential all wear based upon mileage. Even with perfect maintenance of these items (perfect maintenance is basically reduced to proper and timely fluid changes), they do have a limit on life due to internal wear. There is no way to easily quantify the wear inside these components to any accurate degree.

Therefore, we only have mileage as a basis for judgment of these specific components. With experiences of others, it's generally accepted that a transmission is on borrowed time once 200-250K is achieved. It's also accepted that the "typical" diesel engine is going to need attention in terms of cylinder head work, timing chain and guides, and oil pump at approx. 300-350K. There are exceptions that go beyond these figures, but, IMHO, you should not take the exceptions to the bank.

I believe if you can establish that the oil was changed regularly and the other maintenance was done, these cars will run for a long distance....I have been in Mercedes diesels in Germany that were used as Taxis with over 800,000 kilmeters on them (over 500,000 miles) that were running on the original engine and tranny. I have also personally run gasser Volvos to 300k+ before I traded them in on other cars; that tells me that mileage is inportant, but maintenance is EVERYTHING. I plan to run my 300SD to over 1 million miles....but I have a spare engine and tranny put aside already, just in case.......

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rdsw
Salem, NH
1984 300SD, 260k miles and counting

Try to look in the 50k-150k range if you plan to keep one. After 200k miles the suspension starts to get tired, theres another $1k or so. $1k here and there starts to add up.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Too many miles is when the seats are torn and springs shot, the suspension is shot, the body rusty or beat-up, knobs and switches broken or sloppy, ...

I've driven cars with 100,000 soccer-mom miles on them and they're POSs. I've also been in 250,000+ mile cars that handle bumps without shudder, run clean and smooth, and the interior looks first-rate. I used to drive 1500miles/week and my car would go through the gears twice between my driveway and Dearborn, a 200mile commute. The piston travel/mile was low and driving 75mph on the cruise control puts very little wear on the engine as the power output is moderate-low. Same for the suspension travel, the brakes, the door hinges, pretty much everything. Less hours per mile and less cycles of every system. I could pretty much divide the miles by 200 and figure out how many times the antenna went up or the door was opened.

The soccer-mom might start the engine cold for every 2-5 miles on the clock, go through the gears 5x per mile, use the brakes every block, idle at school for 20minutes honking for her child, ... big difference in uses and wear.

Miles mean nothing, but are still very important to resale value for late-model cars.

A former boss in a dealership once told me (regarding used car value): the only thing that you can't fix is miles.

Maintenance also is important, everything from flluid and filter changes to wheel balance. Usually you can tell a lot about a car by looking it over and driving it. If a car has been "in trouble", broken and missing parts are an indicator, mis-matched tires are another, really worn interiors in a car yet another. Find a 200,000mile car that starts and runs well, clean under the hood with no duct-tape repairs, drives and rides tight, and nothing looks worn to within an inch of its life it's probably a keeper. A matching set of recent Michelins will always catch my attention.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

My current MB is an '84 190D 2.2 with 384,xxx actual miles. I have most of the service records. This car was not babied. The engine and trans are original, still starts, runs, and drives great.

Don't be afraid of high mileage, especially if the car runs good.

SteveM.

PS - the OM601 engine is very solid.

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'93 190E/D 2.5 Turbodiesel 5-speed (daily driver)
'87 190D 2.5 Turbo rustbucket - parts car
'84 Dodge Rampage diesel - Land Speed Record Holder
'13 Ram 2500 Diesel
'05 Toyota 4Runner

i agree with everything brian has stated but i would separate the turbo engines from the non turbo engines. i have the most experience with the 616 617 diesels too. the turbo motored 617 motors tend to need a head gasket at around 250 to 300k. at that time valve work is usualliy in order too.

the non turbo motors can run probably 400 to 500k with good care without touching anything. if not receiving good care, all bets are off.

the 602 603 motors are not in my experience set enough to make much comment.

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

My 79 300td wagon had 345k fixed on its odometer .I bought it for $650 and sold it recently for $1500 or so .It was a great car and I drove it off and on for a year.I guess I put in another $400 in service ,mostly suspention,so I made out OK.My thoughts follow alot of what you guys have mentioned and I really do appriciate the inSITE .Their is a point to DRAW a line in the dirt , as often as not,you get too attached with a particular car and then your set for a ride.I call it the merry go round of used cars ,were you stop only you know.It would have been intersting to see how far the old girl couldve gone but thats like beating a horse to death almost ,i like the memories I have of her,so Im satisfied with that.