Brutal start this morning. only 33F :( - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jeremy5848 · #31 12-02-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I agree, not cold enough. You shouldn't need a heater at 30 F it's in reasonable condition. I don't even think about plugging mine in unless it's below about 15 F.

Thanks for the data point. I'll run some more tests in about three weeks and report from Salt Lake City.

If a car's engine is in good shape -- glow plugs, compression, fuel filters, battery & starter, etc., I would think that the most important thing that an owner can do "the night before" is to get the battery on a trickle charger (go out and buy one if necessary) and leave it all night so that you have a fully charged and slightly warmer battery in the morning.

If you don't have a block heater, it's unlikely you'll install one that evening. Likewise, if your block is tired or you have one or more bad glow plugs, you're not gonna fix it overnight. If it's so cold that the fuel is gelling in the tank, nothing but a heated garage will help you. But everything else being good, you want as strong a battery as you can get so that you can do one or more complete glow cycles and then crank the engine for all its worth.

#32 12-02-2006, 06:38 PM

I've also found that it spins quicker with 5W40 synthetic oil, that can make a big difference when it's really cold.

Hatterasguy · #33 12-02-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I agree, not cold enough. You shouldn't need a heater at 30 F it's in reasonable condition. I don't even think about plugging mine in unless it's below about 15 F.

Yep my SD which is pretty shot will start down to about 20-25ish without a block heater. The blow by is amazing the the timing is off. Below that it becomes a crap shoot but sometimes will light off. Note this with 15w40 dino in the crank which slows the cranking speed down a lot. This winter with 5w40 synthetic I am expecting to gain a few more degrees.

So if my shot 617 can do it, so can yours fix it!

networkboy · #34 12-02-2006, 08:30 PM

Gawd what a PITA.

Bought the plug at the local shop.
applied a generous ammount of penetrating oil and waited.
removed the wire and got the 12mm socket out only to find... too shallow.

no problem, run back to the store and buy a 12mm deep socket only to find... too deep (hits the IP).

AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!

go back to the shop and buy a complete set (12mm-22mm) of mid-depth sockets and gues what? 1/2" drive! (guess what I don't have). Grab my 3/8 to 1/2" adapter and now we're back to too deep.

Finish with a liberal ammount of swearing at nothing in particular, then came here to vent. Maybe tommorow I'll work all this out.

Am I right in my observation that #4 is the biggest PITA of all 5 GPs?
was hoping to have tommorow morning to test it

-nB

networkboy · #35 12-03-2006, 05:49 AM

Alright,
Two lessons learned...
One: get the right tools
Two: yes, one GP really can make that much of a difference

Had to use a breaker bar as a socket driver b/c that's the only 1/2" drive I could find handy tonight. That then required that for every 1/8th turn I had to pull off the socket (6 pt) and rotate it 90deg so I could do the next 1/8th turn. But hey, the job's done and the car starts like a champ now (or at least good enough for me).

Thanks all

-nB

tobybul · #36 12-03-2006, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorebilly

G'mornin',

I just returned from my Thanksgiving trip to N'awlins......total trip 2250 miles....mileage over all was/is 24.94 mpg

Earlier this month I replaced all 5 of my "glow plugs"....began a thread here, commenting upon the marked improvement in starting...even tho I was not complaining about starting to begin with....just rough idle after start!!!

SB

Shorebilly, did you figure out the cause of the rough idling after start?

Jeremy5848 · #37 12-03-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I've also found that it spins quicker with 5W40 synthetic oil, that can make a big difference when it's really cold.

Thank you, I forgot that one. Yes, I expect my change to Mobil 1 will help when/if it gets really cold.

What with block heaters, pan heaters, battery heaters, etc., one can do quite a bit. What about the fuel? How cold can it get before Diesel 1 or a mixture of 1 and 2 begins to gel? That would seem to me to be the limiting factor regardless of what is done to the engine.

#38 12-03-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

What about the fuel? How cold can it get before Diesel 1 or a mixture of 1 and 2 begins to gel? That would seem to me to be the limiting factor regardless of what is done to the engine.

That's a good question, I think it depends on the specific additives in the fuel you buy. I have used "winter diesel" from a pump down to about -5 or -10 F, but I don't know what the absolute limit is. Just to be safe, I usually add whatever "anti-gel" additives I find at a truck stop if I find myself in very cold conditions.

kerry · #39 12-03-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by networkboy

Alright,
Two lessons learned...
One: get the right tools
Two: yes, one GP really can make that much of a difference

Had to use a breaker bar as a socket driver b/c that's the only 1/2" drive I could find handy tonight. That then required that for every 1/8th turn I had to pull off the socket (6 pt) and rotate it 90deg so I could do the next 1/8th turn. But hey, the job's done and the car starts like a champ now (or at least good enough for me).

Thanks all

-nB

I believe I used a box end wrench when removing the glow plugs and it worked fine. Glad you got it fixed.

Bruce Kennedy · #40 12-03-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katja

How much does fuel type factor into low-temperature starting? I am running about 20% biodiesel & the rest Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel #2. At about 25 degrees F this morning, 30 second pre-glow and mine fired up in about two seconds (but always runs a little rough for a few seconds after starting). That's on a 1976 240D with who-knows-how-old series glow plugs, quite a bit of blowby, and over 250K miles. On the good side the battery is only a year old, valves have been adjusted and I use 15w-50 Mobil synthetic oil. Tonight it's supposed to get down to 18F, if I weren't curious to see how well it starts I'd definitely plug in at those temperatures.

I've heard at some point in the single digits straight #2 diesel fuel will gel so you mix it with kerosene or RUG if no #1 is available....but is the ULSD any different? What if you run 99% biodiesel or a mix? What if there's a bit of SVO mixed in the tank?

I'm burning 100% distilled methly soyate ( biodiesel ). It's gel point is 25 degrees farenheight ( I tested it in the freezer ). I'm now adding Amsoil's cold flow improver and the gel point is now a 5 degrees but to give myself a safe margin of error I not going to run this in them below 10 degrees.

85 300 td
85 300d
84 300sd
83 300d
81 240d

Shorebilly · #41 12-03-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobybul

Shorebilly, did you figure out the cause of the rough idling after start?

Yup.....one cylinder was not firing as well as the rest.....if some of your glow plugs are working, and some aren't.....those that do work, heat up that prechamber......and they fire easier than those without good glow plugs.....so it idles roughly after starting.......

SB

Shorebilly · #42 12-03-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

I believe I used a box end wrench when removing the glow plugs and it worked fine. Glad you got it fixed.

I have several sizes and depths of socket sets, and wobble drives, universals....and all sorts of other gadgets that make some jobs easier......in my opinion.....a gearwrench works the best for glow plugs.....

years ago, when I had the sailboat, a friend gave me a metric GearWrench set for Xmas.....always thought it a bit hokey.....have kept it in the trunk of various metric vehicles,.......emergency tools, I mainly used the screwdrivers and a couple of the sockets.....

Now I have a much higher opinion of the GearWrench (sold by NAPA, and others)......

SB

kerry · #43 12-03-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorebilly

.in my opinion.....a gearwrench works the best for glow plugs....
SB

I agree, although a little more expensive than a box end.

tobybul · #44 12-03-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorebilly

Yup.....one cylinder was not firing as well as the rest.....if some of your glow plugs are working, and some aren't.....those that do work, heat up that prechamber......and they fire easier than those without good glow plugs.....so it idles roughly after starting.......

SB

I wonder if one of mine is bad..... how do you check to find out which one may be bad?

networkboy · #45 12-04-2006, 05:50 AM

Ohm meter between the threaded tip of the GP and the block.
should read >=1 ohm
-nB