Used vs. Rebuilt Tranny, Pitfalls??
 

hey all,

some of you may know, Regenbogen, my 240D suffered some abuse in the hands of a local tow co. that resulted in a deep fried transmission.

Insurance came through, valued the car at $3500 and cut a check to cover the cost of a rebuilt tranny + labor. Dodged a bullet there; at first they had totalled it but perserverance pays off. I've now got $2400 to work with.

The car is waiting now, either for a used transmission to go in or for a SunValley rebuild to ship out. The used tranny would come from my mechanic's shop and he would take all liability for defects. Any problems with the rebuilt tranny itself would rest on me, but comes with a 2 year warranty.

Which would you go with? What's your logic? Pros and Cons for each?

t

If you had some reasonable assurance from your Indy that the donor trans he has doesnt have a zillion miles on it and he is willing to stand behind it I would probably go that way.

You could then use the balance of the $ for other needed upgrades/maint or fun projects.

That's my thinking too. The difference would be about a cool grand. That's alot of jet fuel.

I'll ask him about his guarantee. If I were him though, I wouldn't guarantee much beyond my labor.

We would need to know the economic impact of both options to weigh it properly....

Hey all. I run a salvage yard in SW MO. There are many good shops out there and there are many bad ones. I would be careful though assuming that the mechanic will assume liability for a used transmission. Most I deal with won't. I have even seen some, that I refuse to do business with now, who would love to see a bad trans so they can get paid twice on the job. Used transmissions can be a bargain if the SALVAGE YARD will stand behind them. You could always ask to buy a labor warranty which would cover costs of R&R if it were to be bad. Some yards do this, some don't. See my profile for my # if you have any further questions or if I can do anything to help out. Good luck!

How long will you keep the vehicle?

How many miles are on the "used" transmission?

If the used transmission has 100K on it and you plan to keep the vehicle for another 100K, odds are 50-50 that it won't make it. The "cool grand" is now toast and then some.

The mechanic will "stand behind" the used transmission for 12 months......maximum........some won't go that long.

If you plan on disposing of the vehicle within the next 50K miles, then the "cool grand" savings looks fairly attractive, but, even with this scenario, I wouldn't install a used trans with 150K on the clock.

The problem with "used" is that one never really knows the mileage or the abuse on the unit. It's really a blind crapshoot. The statements made by the salvage yard are pure BS.

Dang Jeremy, sure wish you ran one down here in the DFW area......;)

Salvage Yards and Economic Impact
 

Haven't had any luck finding a salvage yard with a 123 tranny let alone one that will stand behind it.

Jimmy, I'm not sure what you mean by economic impact, but I'll tell you what I know. I bought the car for $1000. I've put about that into it (paint and parts). This tranny issue brings in $2400 for repairs. A used tranny installed will run me ~$1500. That $900 remainder is very tempting to finangle, but incurs a certain amount of risk. The rebuild would give me some real peace of mind, but I'm concerned about any potential defects coming from Sun Valley.

In reality I could walk away from the car right now and come out a little better than break even.

The cost from Sun Valley is about $1300. Add $400. to R & R and you're at $1700.

IMHO, a used transmission from a salvage yard is ridiculous for a savings of $200.

Brian,

Overlapping posts here.

I hear what you're saying. Crap shoot with a used.

I've got 217,000 on the body and engine. Overall it's mechanically sound and I hope to get at least another 100K.

A rebuild from his guy will run $2700 and he will stand behind it, but for how long? It could be very good insurance against defects to pay a little extra.

Okay,

SunValley quoted me $1500 shipped.

Then I have to factor in labor. That's been estimated at 8 hours @ $85.00/ hr. = $680.00

We're up to 2180.00

Contingencies, mounts, flex discs and we're up to the $2400 estimate.

BTW, I've got no desire to do this myself. I'm comfortable with some stuff, but not with this.

For him to stand behind the tranny I need to use his guy. Add $300.00 to the rebuilt.

$2700. for a trans. is an absolute, complete, and total ripoff. Just forget about that right now.

If you want to get a rebuilt unit, seriously consider Sun Valley. Adam recently had a good experience with them. You can contact him for the details.

The entire job should be completed for about $1700.......give or take.

You'll just need to find someone to R & R for $400 or so. Not impossible if you seek them out.

$680. is on the high side. I should be done for closer to $400. No way it's an 8 hour job for a skilled mechanic. I'll bet they do it in five hours or less.

Contingencies, mounts, flex discs, etc. add to the cost of either job. Did the used transmission cost have these items in the price?

The way my indy does it is by charging a margin over the cost of the used piece. This is sort-of like buying an extended warranty from him...it's not written that way, but he assumes the liability of working with the salvage yard to get the best possible unit from them. He warranties engines and trannies for 10k miles or 6 months, and the markup is not extravagant (like 20%).

If the indy will stand behind both the work and the trans with a guaranty, there's no reason not to save the $$$.

Well, the car's at his shop and clearly doesn't go. As soon as I start shopping around I'm looking at paying $100 - 200 per tow. If I could do it myself I would; wish I was as capable as some of y'all.

I don't want to get taken, but I also want to have this done right. This guy (Vanderveer, Norwood, MA) is a good mechanic. Long time MB guy.

Lets see if this link will work. I dont think I am suppose to do this but here it is.....

http://trade1911.car-part.com/cgi-bin/tpSearch.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1911&iIV=3.2.0.59&iCN=jeremy@rjautosalvageinc.com&uID=rjas1tp&uP ass=zv7%3F77&imsFullSpecification=2&userIMS=A&userInterchange=B%3EBEBN&userSide=&userDate=1982&userD ate2=1982&dbModel=49.8.1.2&userModel=MB240&dbPart=400&dbSubPart=1&userPart=TRA&sessionID=978&userPre ference=price&userZip=64843&userLat=36.7164&userLong=-94.3594&userPage=1&userLocation=usa

Hopefully the link wont ask you for a password. Potomac German and Rite-Way are both real good to deal with. If I can help any more, let me know.....

Well, sometimes, it's just easier to go with the flow.........alternatives are more difficult with a vehicle that won't move under it's own power.

The difficulty and knowledge is in the rebuild of the trans. The R & R is the easy part. Adam did the unit himself with the vehicle on jackstands.........he's 17 years old BTW.

All those contingencies are going to be added on regardless.


10K doesn't sound like much of a guarantee to me.

Brian, the way I see it the money is there. I want to be smart with this ins. payout, but reality is that if I hadn't been given an estimate by this mechanic then the check would have been cut for less (perhaps more reflective of the labor figures that you suggest).

I know. He's got it down to something like 2 hours, an extraordinary kid (no offense Adam).

I'm afraid cars are not my talent. I'm learning, and thoroughly enjoying some of the work. The satisfaction is super having done a job myself. However, getting to that point can be like a voluntary trip to the third ring of Hades!

Maybe with your guidance and encouragement I could do it. Think it'd be safe to drive 30 miles in first gear??

Clearly, you've already established a "relationship" with this mechanic and he's assisted in obtaining the amount you now hold in your hands.

So, the question of Sun Valley becomes, effectively, moot.

You'll have to choose between his rebuilder and the used unit, with the higher costs associated with both.

The decision comes down to the age of the used transmission and how long you intend to keep the vehicle. The worst scenario is to have to rebuild the transmission twice within the next five years.

BTW, "rebuilt" transmissions vary all over the map as to what exactly is done inside them. In reality, none of them are totally rebuilt. None of them will ever go the same distance as the original factory transmission.

Jeremy,

Awesome, thanks for the link. It's always good to know someone in the business. I'll look it over now.

T

You certainly can R & R the trans if you have a solid work surface (concrete) and are willing to do the job slowly over some weeks. Attempting to do it in one day will frustrate and injure you.

I did the cylinder head on the SD over the course of 5 months. It's an 8 hour job for a skilled mechanic. I had issues with a very poor rebuilder and had to switch and ship the unit to CA. All in the learning process.........

Adam could provide you with every little tidbit that you need.

You could drive it for 30 miles in first, but, it would take you two hours and traffic probably wouldn't let you continue at 15 mph for the entire trip. Such a decision might not be a wise one.

Consider borrowing a pickup truck and towing it 30 miles. If the engine runs and can provide vacuum for the brakes, this is far safer than driving it in first gear.

For what it's worth, here's my experience with Sun Valley: I was given a 1980 300 TD with 390 k miles and a failing rebuilt tranny (I don't know where the rebuilt was from.) I got a rebuilt from Sun Valley for $1050 plus $125 shipping, and my 17 year-old son and I installed it using a rented jack ($30.000). This was one year ago; it's running perfectly - several thousand miles. Steve

Actually, I feel great about SunValley's reputation, less so about "his" guy. He feels pretty good about "his" guy but has never used Sun Valley, so he can't/ won't say.

Mechanic and I have talked about doing one or the other. He's up for either, but he feels better about using his guy.

The Pro's of using Vanderveer.

Excellent mechanic.

Will stand behind his work.

Will deliver a smooth shifting tranny, modulated, adjusted and back up to spec.

Con's

Cost. period.
----
I'm not sure I'm equipped to deal with seized bolts, etc. The grief alone should have a dollar figure attached to it. And when I'm done and I still flair miserably, I think I'd regret the DIY.

Am I coming across sufficiently pessimistic about my wrenching skills here?

Of course he feels better about his guy. These folks get accustomed to a given rebuilder or shop and that's who they stay with. But, remember, all he needs to do is to make it for 6 months. Then he, and his guy, are off the hook.

He knows nothing about Sun Valley. I'd be surprised if he would warrant the labor on a Sun Valley unit.

We're more interested in what the rebuild will do in five years and 75K miles. That's the real question. The answer is more difficult to obtain.

The grief does have a dollar figure for most folks. If you don't have the mental attitude to deal with seized bolts, inevitable difficulties with questions, wrong parts, etc., then doing this work is not for you.

With a pessimistic attitude, the task is insurmountable.

Suprisingly enough, he will guarantee his labor on the Sun Valley.

With Sun's track record, what's your opinion on the 75K mark?

I need some stats here.

Well, that's sure interesting.

I don't have any data, personally, on Sun Valley at that mileage level. Maybe some others will chime in regarding long term durability.

Don't get me wrong. I've come a long way since July when I bought this car. I love knowing how and why this car goes. Having a hand in it's resurrection has been immensely satisfying. I just feel like I'm in over my head here.

I got an e-mail from a member requesting Sun Valley contact info; my reply e-mails aren't getting through, so here it is:

Sun Valley Mercedes Benz Dismantlers
818 768 0704 svmbz@aol.com
Steve

Rebuilt it yourself if you have the ability to do so. $2400 is MORE than enough to even have one shipped in to you... You're talking MAYBE $400 in parts to DIY. As stated, it's not a single day project.

Put that other $1k into your IRA for the year. Or use it for the suspension on the car. Book hour is 14 hr for front, 9 hr for rear I recall... if you wanted to pay someone.

Rebuilt is usually better than used, and has a better warranty.

I have not heard any bad things about Sun Valley, and from what I have read about them, they will be my first choice when my tranny lets go. My car has a rebuilt one in it. I do not know who rebuilt it, but it had 30k miles on it when I bought my car. I just added 10k to it. It is past time to do a fluid and filter change on it. That is next on my list.

Based on how much easier my 300D is to work on compared to other vehicles, I kick my self for not getting one sooner!

Reman is better than rebuilt... better than used.

Used is pretty silly unless you can confirm the mileage on the unit.



Problem is most local trans shops don't know how to rebuild foreign units easily, despite them being VERY simple. There is just not much to the 722.3 I had Cottman do the A341 in my Mother's LS400 and it seems to be doing fine still as it was maybe 3-4 years back. Probably has 50-80k on it by now, not sure. I just service it every 10k with a pan drain of two quarts (the filter is only a 100 micron screen)

I still can't figure out why people get hooked for a reman torque converter either on the MB units. There's no lockup clutch within. I could see if you have excessive spline wear maybe...

I have meaning to ask this question... what does "totaled" mean in a case like this? Why would an insurance company dictate totalling a vehicle when the owner wants to repair the car? I just need some education....

Totaled is when the cost to repair the car is more than a certain percentage based on the cars value. Last I checked, it was about 60%. Once totalled, the cars go to auction and salvage yards or rebuilders then have the chance to buy it. Sometimes, the insurance company will allow the owner to buy the car back at a certain premium.

Sorry you are across the Sound. I would give you a hand for a couple of hours. Changing out a tranny is a tough task without a lift. I have done it more than once. Having a couple pairs of hands makes a big difference. You would have to get the car high enough in the air to clear the tranny and the tranny jack. I would also recommend degreasing everything first because if it has had any leaks the tranny and the tranny well will be covered in oil and grime.

There is no doubt in my mind that I would go for the Sun Valley tranny and put it in myself. However, I have rebuilt engines and trannys in the past so I am up for it with at least shadtree experience and a very good selection of tools. Just remember that even though it is a dirty heavy job to do, it is not rocket science. Nothing against mechanics, but with the FSM and someone with a bit of automotive mechanical knowledge and it can be done.

I was always afraid of auto trannys until I came to this site and read about people rebuilding their own trannys with success. I am trying to buy a 190D turbo right now with a bad tranny and if I get it, I plan on rebuilding the tranny myself.

Also know that you will always take more care in your work on your car than anyone else.

Good luck.

I must be missing something here. Four to eight hours to change out an automatic in an old mercedes 240d? Talk to a reputable transmission only shop about a time and charge to pull and install one. Ask around. Of course he wants to get his normal source to rebuild it as well as he gets a large cut of your quoted cost. He might even get a smaller cut if he orders it as a functioning auto repair business from sun over your price. Thats why one poster stated about 1100.00 from sun I think. Email that poster and ask. You might try that angle to work the price down. Tell them what you want done exactly. Get a price. I know my own time and am not a mechanic. Forget 680.00 for a change or at least discuss it with him prior to the job. At those prices he will gaurantee his future labour of course as you have prepaid for it anyways in my opinion. Perhaps for several changes even. If the old transmission was changing well once the new one is in the vacuum circuits should not have to be reworked etc. Use a quality known box like the sun unit of course. I suspect a competent transmission guy at 30 minutes out and about 30 minutes back in. Check. It probably might consume about two hours for me to do this on one of my own cars as I do not do autoimatic changes very often. Plus am older and slower now. Try not to be a victim. Basically you owe this guy nothing as I see no attempt at fairness from him up to this point. If you still feel obligated negotiate with knowledge including his cost from sun versus yours and a fair time charge for the change. That way if a warranty change is required sun might go good for it as well. A few phone calls should get things sorted out. Do not attempt to prepay labour you may not need. Keep some of the insurance money for the bull you are subject to along the path of life. Think how lucky your mechanic is that he is not dealing with me.:D I was just getting warmed up.:eek: