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Dodge starts the pickup truck diesel ball rolling with the Cummins diesel and it catches on with the pickup crowd, and soon to follow was Ford using an International 6.9 diesel. Now, these did not catch on as much purely because of the low fuel cost. After a while, the longevity did catch on , and the fuel economy was also a plus. One other bad point during that same time, most diesel fueling stations were of the 'truck stop' variety, which did not appeal to the general public.
The Ford 6.9 trucks were introduced in 85 or 86? Dodge didn't put the Cummins in their truck until 89 and it was a bit of a dud unless you towed hard and heavy. The exhaust turbine housing was a bit too large, sized for bigger vehicles and not for around town in a pickup. What really set off the diesel wars is the ever larger RV trailers being offered. No one even considered a 12-15K trailer back in the early 80's. There wasn't anything that would pull them. Dodge did kick that bit off, as ugly as the pre-94 Dodge, but that Cummins loved to pull. RT
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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops! 84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K 03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K 93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K |
#33
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
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Depending on the market he is pandering to, he might.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
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Yes, I use my Excursion as a grocery getter and 2nd car. However, are you willing to pay the difference for me to get a smaller car and have a tow vehicle? I do tow an RV a few times a year and a trailer with 2 ATVs on it. If I were to buy another car for my daily driver and grocery getter, dog hauler (3 larger dogs) etc, etc, I would need to pay more insurance, more for storage of the vehicles, and the list goes on. So, will I recoup my investment in getting an fuel efficient car and a tow vehicle for this once a month towing activity you speak of?
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
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Diesel has been more expensive than gas for the last few years. So from a fuel savings point, you might be right but from a wallet standpoint, maybe not.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
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But thats where marketing and advertising comes in. These are very powerfull tools if used right, look at Hybrids. People love them they are hip, then look at H2's. Two perfect examples of people being told they want to buy something, and buying it. One thing is for sure, if there was money in it they would import them. Its all about making money, thats not even business 101, thats like super basic intro 095. I also suspect in the last year to 18 months all of the big car companies have done studies on the prospects of these cars. They would be crazy not to. The lack of people jumping on the diesel bandwagon at this time is telling. However I suspect the diesels time has not yet come in this country, when hybrids get old I think diesels may be the next enviro sweetheart cars.
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1999 SL500 1969 280SE 2023 Ram 1500 2007 Tiara 3200 Last edited by Hatterasguy; 12-16-2006 at 05:35 PM. |
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Gas would have to be much higher than diesel for that to happen. Problem is the diesel engine is inherently more expensive, pumps are dirtier, fuel has more gelling problems, cold start problems to name a few. We won't even get into the fact that when you order a diesel engine it is more expensive up front.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
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What you are not seeing Aklim is that not everybody lives in Wisconsin...
Gelling of diesel, cold start, and even diesel prices are not problems in most of the Sunbelt. Besides the cost of diesel, like the CARB rules, are just a political decision away to be reversed if diesel becomes a green poster-child. The only real hurdle of marketing diesel is the shortsighness of most uhmericun consumer that will go for the lower initial expense independently of operating expenses. The 1 or 2k premium on light-duty diesel engine is the real long-term obstacle.
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------------------------------------------ Aquilae non capunt muscas! (Eagles don't hunt flies!) 1979 300SD Black/Black MBtex239000mi 1983 300TD euro-NA. White/Olive Cloth-MBtex 201000mi. Fleet car of the USA embassy in Morocco 1983 240D Labrador Blue/Blue MBtex 161000mi |
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Whats cheaper to run for 100k miles? A 2007 Honda Civic, or a 2007 VW TDI?
Maintaince is probably a wash, and mileage isn't that different. The TDI may beat the Civic on average of 5-10mpg. Considering the lower initial purchase price of the Civic, where is the cost savings? I will bet if anyone sat down and calculated some real world numbers after say 100k miles the cost difference between these similer cars would be very small. In MB world the cost savings is nill, E320 vs E300D its a wash. Its eco 101 for any consumer market, everything being equal people will go with the lower priced good.
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1999 SL500 1969 280SE 2023 Ram 1500 2007 Tiara 3200 |
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How many states would you say that includes? While we are on that, what is the gas price vs diesel price in the sunbelt? Most places I have seen, diesel is more expensive Lower initial expense is an important thing. If you ask someone whether to spend the extra 2000 on a leather interior or on a diesel engine, what can you tell them the advantage is? That is uses less of the more expensive fuel? Kinda of a push. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have bought a diesel. At that time, the prices were just a shade lower than gas. At current prices, I don't see a benefit to my checkbook. Yes, I buy less gallons of fuel but the fuel is more expensive. What is my savings? For towing my Toy Hauler, I have to get a turbodiesel. Not much choice there. For a car, not really unless you can show me the difference. Whether the new CDIs will get what they are rated at, we shall see. EPA says they will get significantly better but I haven't seen the data yet. In any case, diesel is not going to be a free lunch. In time, more fuel stops will have diesel but not today. Pumps are dirtier from spills and you tend to trek more into the car. Cold start and gelling issues are important since you will have to contend with resale. I can't imagine why people seem to think that diesel will solve all the problems without bringing in it's own issues.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
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Read most of the posts in this thread and may have missed what is the real reason I consider to be paramount to US automakers in particular: They want to sell a new vehicle to the same person every couple of years or so. A diesel lasts forever!! Think about it. Who knows if they have any influence on furel prices or not. They could. Generally a person or business in Europe or Asia buys a vehicle that will last a generation so to speak, a bit more frugal than Americans so that is what they demand. They get it and we don't. I know I am over simplifying this, but maybe?
Bud
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1987 300D Turbo, 175k mi., 1998 BMW 323i Convertible, 1997 F250 4x4 7.3L PSD |
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Simple math here:
VW TDI we own averages 47mpg, driven hard. 20K per year/47mpg=@425gallonsX$2.75per gallon=$1170 yearly fuel cost Its hard to do a direct comparison to a Honda since the Jetta seems larger than an Civic and smaller than an Accord? It is certainly priced in between... Either way would a 35mpg be a realistic average for a Honda driven in the same manner as our TDI? If so: Honda averaging 35mpg, 20K per year/35mpg=@571gallonsX$2.25per gallon=$1285 yearly fuel cost. The TDI still has the advantage but not by much. I don't get the complaint about fuel gelling or cold starting problems. I have NEVER had any of these problems and it does get cold here in RI and up in NH where I frequently drive in winter. Diesel pumps can be nasty. The simple solution is to keep a set of gloves in the trunk for refueling. Cheap gardening gloves work well. The simple fact that VW sells all the TDI's they make without any marketing campaign is sign enough that there is a market. Used TDI's easily sell for $1K-$2K more than book value. The Liberty CRD sold much better than expected. The GM Duramax plant manufactures 100,000+ engines per year and cannot build enough, they are at capacity. I think when Honda puts their CDI on the market it will sell like water in the sahara. RT
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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops! 84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K 03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K 93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K |
#45
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Quote:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=134717&highlight=high+diesel+prices
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Current: 05 E320 CDI 07 GL320 CDI 08 Sprinter 05 Dodge Cummins 01 Dodge Cummins Previous 2004 E55 AMG 2002 C32 AMG (#2) 1995 E300 1978 300D 1987 300D 2002 C32 AMG(blown motor :[ 1981 300SD 1983 300SD 1987 300SDL 2002 Jetta TDI 1996 S420 1995 S500 1993 190E 2.6 1992 190E 2.3 1985 190E 2.3 5-Speed |
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