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  #16  
Old 12-15-2006, 11:45 PM
Mustang_man298's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Shingletown,Ca
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There are certain limits to torqueing, as far as what you absolutely should do with a wrench no matter what, what you know you can do without the wrench thru experience and knowledge, and that you should never try to without if you are unsure of yourself or new at wrenching.

I too have had my injector lines on and off 3 or 4 times, using only a 17mm open wrench, and a careful hand, snug them and then I just give the wrench a few good solid bumps with the palm of my hand, fire it up and add a few more bumps if it starts to leak, which it never has yet, and have never overtightened and distorted things this way. They are only common flare fittings, nothing special, and you only need enough pressure to create a seal. Consequently I never ever tighten anything requiring known precision, such as bearing related without the proper tool, and never assemble engine bearings without first checking clearances. Torque specs in this case create a certain amount of metal crush to achieve the proper clearances. This kind of knowledge comes from time turning wrenches, making mistakes, and learning along the way, anyone new to mechanics would be wise to take the time and do it the "proper" way.

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  #17  
Old 12-16-2006, 02:45 AM
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Stop

You do not need to take off any injection lines on a 617. I just did it. You need to take off the vacuum modulator valve next to the ALDA. 2 allen head screws and a niffty plastic clip for the linkage. (mine broke in my fingers the fourth time)
Then with a 24mm and a 25mm wrench(or very thin adjustable) you can remove it. Mine was very tight and that is an understatement. I went out and bought two 24mm after reading the post and failing with an adjustable wrench and channel locks. To loosen mine, I had to get a real wrench on each side and pry the handles apart with a pry bar. This cannot be done with channel locks.

I found a guy 1 hour from my house who scraps MBs. I found him on ebay. I do not have his number but you can find his ads on ebay. His are the ones with the parts on a blue MB flag for a background. Just send him a question thru ebay. His name is Dave.
Anyone want a 24mm wrench?
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1982 300D 135K
1986 300SDL 145K
1996 GMC Suburban 4x4 winter/tow vechicle
1989 Sunsation 24(ft) 454 65 MPH :fork_off:
1997 Aurora 82K

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 12-16-2006 at 10:17 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2006, 06:45 AM
Shorebilly's Avatar
Marine Engineer (retired)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,268
Exclamation Some stuff to think about.....

Folks,

This thread began when someone overtorqued an ALDA adjusting screw.....

Design Engineers, when creating things like ALDA, Fuel Injection Pumps, Carburettors, and other stuff with adjustments.....generally....

Whatever the device.....the adjustment screw will not be at it's fully open or fully closed position unless it's worn out ot broken.....so if you happen to find that you have mistakenly backed out a screw.....or lost count of where you are.....a good place to begin is at the MIDPOINT......engage the threads of adjusting screw......count the number of turns until you feel the screw bottoming out......back off 1/2 of the total turns.....and then begin your adjusting experimentation......never force anything.....

That adjusting screw is a standard flat screw, most likely because it will be easier to remember the amount of partial turns, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2......because the screw slot can be mentally alligned with a point or something close by.....if it was a Phillips screw there would be an X to look at and be far harder to keep track of adjusting movements.....

Although this is a Diesel forum.....how many of you guys have ever found a carburettor metering screw that has been run into it's seat hard enough to damage the needle?? Some folks just don't have the feel for, or any idea of what they are attempting to accomplish.......

I don't have a cutaway view of the Bosch PES 5 xx xx/xxx RS xx/x type injection pump that we have on our cars......however the after part of that Injection Pump is considered to be a governor.....there is a system of levers, springs, pivot points, and stops inside of the rear pump cover....over time the pivot points tend to wear a bit.....the springs tend to weaken a bit.....and adjustments and repairs become necessary.......the ALDA is supposedly a device that allows for fuel/air ratios to be corrected to an optimum value for efficient combustion.....in reference to a signal from the Turbo Boost pressure.....it is far from the Magik fix all smoking/performance adjustment that it has received a reputation for here.....

SB
__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2006, 07:00 AM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorebilly View Post
the ALDA is supposedly a device that allows for fuel/air ratios to be corrected to an optimum value for efficient combustion.....in reference to a signal from the Turbo Boost pressure
It's an emissions device designed to prevent the emission of visible smoke. There is no magic a/f ratio.

The same device/adjustment on the Dodge with the Cummins is called Smoke Control.

The proper way to adjust the ALDA is to turn the screw CCW 1/4 turn at a time until you see black smoke out the tailpipe. Then, turn it back (CW) 1/4 turn.

Here is what you can get with no ALDA: VIDEO of 102.7HP 148.2TQ

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 12-16-2006 at 07:12 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2006, 07:25 AM
Shorebilly's Avatar
Marine Engineer (retired)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,268
Exclamation No Smoke = Efficient Cumbustion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
It's an emissions device designed to prevent the emission of visible smoke. There is no magic a/f ratio.

The same device/adjustment on the Dodge with the Cummins is called Smoke Control.

The proper way to adjust the ALDA is to turn the screw CCW 1/4 turn at a time until you see black smoke out the tailpipe. Then, turn it back (CW) 1/4 turn.

Here is what you can get with no ALDA: VIDEO of 102.7HP 148.2TQ
Dodge Cummins use a similar Bosch "P Type" FI Pump....I had better say "Most Dodge Cummins" because I have heard tales of other types of Injection pumps on Dodge.....

Bottom line.....No Smoke = Efficient combustion..... and my car don't smoke......

SB

Back in the day....one of my main points was to maintain a clear stack....18 (or whatever) knots, No Smoke......so my Assistant Engineers did a little more FI work than others, and I also kept my Turbo's and intercoolers in optimim condition.....when you recon your fuel consumption in Tons per Mile....it becomes important
__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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  #21  
Old 12-16-2006, 07:35 AM
ForcedInduction
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Just like Banks said, Black smoke is power you can see but not use.

A properly tuned diesel will not have any smoke at full load. You will notice in my dyno video that I only emit smoke for a second or two until the turbo catches up with airflow demand.

While puking out a thick black cloud at full power looks cool, I understand that it's not the correct way to tune a diesel.
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  #22  
Old 12-16-2006, 07:51 AM
Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
While puking out a thick black cloud at full power looks cool, I understand that it's not the correct way to tune a diesel.
IMHO, it only looks cool to the idiots driving chipped diesel pick-ups. There is no reason to tune a diesel to make excessive smoke, it wastes fuel, increases emissions, and hurts diesels' image with the public. I would like to see some of these guys ticketed when they leave a giant cloud of black smoke every time they pull away from a stop light.
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2006, 10:42 AM
Shorebilly's Avatar
Marine Engineer (retired)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,268
ALDA = Atmosphärische Ladedruckanpassung

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
It's an emissions device designed to prevent the emission of visible smoke. There is no magic a/f ratio.
[/URL]
ALDA = Atmosphärische Ladedruckanpassung = Atmospheric Load Pressure Adjustment..... or roughly in Automotive context "Atmospheric Charge Air Pressure Adjuster"

Abgasturbolader = Exhaust Gas Turbocharger

I do not speak German.....but I do read Technical German to a degree...and Blueprints, Hydraulic and Electrical Schematics.....

the word "Lade" is directly translated as Load.......but understanding German requires a bit of interpretation......so an "Abgasturbolader".....is directly translated as Exhaust Gas Turbo Loader......or in American English in Automotive Context.....Exhaust Gas Turbo Charger.......the loading being the "Charge Air"........so in Automotive context "Ladedruckanpassung"......becomes.....Charge Air Pressure Adjuster......

so although ALDA may be thought of as an Emissions device....by it's definition it adjusts the Fuel Injection Pump for changes in Charge Air Pressure....wether that Charge is Atmospheric (altitude effected) or Boosted via a Turbo or Super Charger.......

SB

__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG

Last edited by Shorebilly; 12-16-2006 at 10:46 AM. Reason: terminology
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