Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 12-16-2006, 08:16 AM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
If it's stumbling, you have other hidden issues. Adjusting the ALDA should not cause anything like that.

Adjusting (or removing) the ALDA on an otherwise stock injection pump is not going to give remotely enough fuel to quench the flame front.

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-16-2006, 08:23 AM
Craig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Adjusting (or removing) the ALDA on an otherwise stock injection pump is not going to give remotely enough fuel to quench the flame front.
That's what I thought too, but try maxing out the ALDA on a new IP an see how it feels. Aside from LOTS of smoke, it feels a little like a flooded gasser. This would not happen with my worn out IP.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-16-2006, 09:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZ View Post
So hold the the alda and turn the bottom nut cw. No sweat. I'm thinking I'll need a few cans of WD40 for this one.

So the final question that needs to be answered is, what do you block the boost line to the shutoff valve with? Do you take the line off at the shutoff valve or let it hang there and stuff a BB or something in to block it off?
Find a suitable bolt and plug the intake manifold. Dont forget the crush washer.
__________________
'85 300D Cal 280,000 miles
'14 GLK 350 60000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-16-2006, 10:14 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
That's what I thought too, but try maxing out the ALDA on a new IP an see how it feels. Aside from LOTS of smoke, it feels a little like a flooded gasser. This would not happen with my worn out IP.
I've got a suspicion that you're onto something here. There is significant variability in the "smoke" that various members get when the ALDA is removed.

With a brand new IP, that puts out fuel to the proper specs, the ALDA is probably mandatory to keep the smoke levels down for most drivers.

With the older IP's that we all have, and especially with the M pumps on the 603's, they appear to put out considerably less fuel than a brand new calibrated pump and the removal of the ALDA doesn't seem to make much difference in the smoke condition. The engine gets too much fuel only at the very edge of the envelope..........full rack at low rpm's.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-16-2006, 10:59 AM
Craig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
With the older IP's that we all have, and especially with the M pumps on the 603's, they appear to put out considerably less fuel than a brand new calibrated pump and the removal of the ALDA doesn't seem to make much difference in the smoke condition. The engine gets too much fuel only at the very edge of the envelope..........full rack at low rpm's.
That sounds right, I don't know much about the 603, but if I turn up the ALDA on the 617 it's still "normal" at higher rpms, it only feels "flooded" at low rpms (before the turbo really comes in) with at least a moderate "throttle" position. It seems to bog down off the line, and giving it more "throttle" makes it worse for a few seconds until it gets some air, then it generates a giant black cloud and runs normally. It's probably just over-fueling due to a combination of a new IP and an old engine. It runs great at all rpms with the correct adjustment. I have never checked the compression on this engine, but the cold starting is normal.

I suspect the 603 design just "breaths" better at low rpm and is less susceptible to this low-rpm over-fueling condition.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-16-2006, 05:09 PM
Running on pure optimism.
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 222
pics

Went for a drive today through the neighborhood and on the highway. It is definitely more sluggish than it was before all this. On the plus side, I have very little smoke, and I have hardly anymore transmission flare. It used to flare 1-2 and 2-3, not it seems like it stays in 1 a little longer, shifts slightly hard into 2, and no flare from 2 to 3.

This is all weird.

I thought with this setup I would have MORE power - I have less - and puff out black clouds - my smoke has extremely diminished.

See the pics. Do I have to stick a tee in the line from the shutoff to the alda, or is it ok like this?
Attached Thumbnails
? about ALDA removal in a 617 see pic-alda-hole.jpg   ? about ALDA removal in a 617 see pic-alda-closeup.jpg  
__________________
1983 MB 300SD Turbo Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-16-2006, 06:23 PM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZ View Post
Went for a drive today through the neighborhood and on the highway. It is definitely more sluggish than it was before all this. On the plus side, I have very little smoke, and I have hardly anymore transmission flare. It used to flare 1-2 and 2-3, not it seems like it stays in 1 a little longer, shifts slightly hard into 2, and no flare from 2 to 3.

This is all weird.

I thought with this setup I would have MORE power - I have less - and puff out black clouds - my smoke has extremely diminished.

See the pics
Your tranny is shifting more firmly and later because you are applying more throttle to get the power you are used to.

The pictures show that your ALDA is destroyed. You will get almost not boost enrichment after the screw has been broken off. You will need to get a different ALDA and replace yours.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-16-2006, 07:12 PM
Running on pure optimism.
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 222
I thought there wasn't much difference between running like this and running with no alda at all...

So my options are:
take the alda off, have more power and probably more smoke
or, get a new alda and go back to the way it was...smoky

I like the lack of smoke and the trans shift now. I assume this will change when I take the alda off?

I don't think the trans is shifting better because I'm throttling more. If I gave it more throttle before I took the alda screw out, the rpm's would just race higher when it flared. ?
__________________
1983 MB 300SD Turbo Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-16-2006, 07:17 PM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZ View Post
I don't think the trans is shifting better because I'm throttling more. If I gave it more throttle before I took the alda screw out, the rpm's would just race higher when it flared. ?
The more throttle you give it the less vacuum the tranny will see, firmer shift. The more throttle you give it the more you pull on the tranny bowden cable, making it stay in the gears longer.

You are not consciously giving it more throttle, you are pushing it enough to get the power output you are used to.

"I thought there wasn't much difference between running like this and running with no alda at all... "
With the ALDA broken like yours, it's running like you are getting half of your boost pressure. With the ALDA removed, it runs like you are at full boost all the time.


"So my options are:
take the alda off, have more power and probably more smoke
or, get a new alda and go back to the way it was...smoky"

Take the ALDA off and you will get more smoke if you drive like a maniac all the time with the pedal to the floor. Get a new ALDA, tune it properly, and you will not get any smoke but you will have all the power the engine is supposed to get.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-17-2006, 09:12 PM
Running on pure optimism.
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 222
Wouldn't you think Home Depot would sell wrenches? Well, they don't. At least nothing other than an 8-pack where the largest size is 19mm.

Gotta buy a big wrench and then I'm taking the alda out. I don't ever drive pedal to the metal like a maniac, so hopefully it won't be too smoky. It was, however, almost constantly smoky with an untouched alda.

Can I get a definite size wrench to buy for this? I've read 24mm, 25mm, 1 1/8" and 1 1/16"...

Thanks!
__________________
1983 MB 300SD Turbo Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-17-2006, 09:21 PM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
24mm for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-17-2006, 09:26 PM
TheDon's Avatar
Ghost of Diesels Past
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZ View Post
The Don - I think you're one of them. It seems like people think the 617 will smoke like hell, and only the 603 can really handle the alda removal. Anyone?
dude.. mine is still stuck on it... im working on removing it
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-17-2006, 09:29 PM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Have you tried getting the engine hot and trying it then?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-17-2006, 09:31 PM
TheDon's Avatar
Ghost of Diesels Past
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Have you tried getting the engine hot and trying it then?
no... i have an issue with turning the wrench... i cant get enough of a swing... ill get it eventually
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-17-2006, 11:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 32
remove ALDA

you need the 24mm in a real wrench, then you can get by with an adjustable, but I think 25mm would be best. Shorter would be better.
Remove the vacuum modulator control, put both wrenches on their nuts so that you can either squize them together or pry them apart. If you can not get them like that, turn the whole mess a quarter turn and try again.

Mine did not smoke much but the gain in throttle response was not worth the loose in performance once the turbo kicked in.
My 82 has 135K and appears to have been proffesionaly maintained. NOTHING I have done makes it run better than when I bought it. It did have a vacuum leak that made it shift hard. So hard that when you floored it that the turbo would kick in as it shifted to 2nd causing the tires to cherp.
I hate the turbo lag, but adjusting the ALDA causes it not to wind through the RPM range as well, decreasing my smiles per gallon.
Many on this fourm say it is my perciption, but if I can back the adjustment off and tell where it winds the way it should, it "aint" in my head.

On the positive side, this simple power plant still holds a challange to those exsperts and us novices, alike.
My goals are to reduce the turbo lag to that of my 603, get better than 24 MPG, fix my oil leaks. I thought I had out grown this!

__________________
1982 300D 135K
1986 300SDL 145K
1996 GMC Suburban 4x4 winter/tow vechicle
1989 Sunsation 24(ft) 454 65 MPH :fork_off:
1997 Aurora 82K
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page