Newbie vacuum questions (OM617) - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tompaah7503 · #1 12-29-2006, 06:04 PM

Hi all..

I bought a OM617.912 engine and was left wondering (*) about the vacuum system on the engine. I think the previous owner just removed or cut off the majority of the vacuum hoses and this doesn't exactly clarify things for me..

What is the vacuum system used for?

Where in the picture below is the ALDA (that so many on this forum are asking about) located?

There is a vacuum in/outlet(?) at the 722-transmission that came with the engine, what is this used for?

Can anyone recommend a good manual for this engine? Preferrably online purchase/download? If anyone has the pages formerly stored at mb.braingears.com that describes this engine I also would be grateful (stupid me not saving those files ..

)

Thanks in advance!

(*) This is my first post on this forum, I have been lurking around some time and feel here's a lot of knowledge. Haven't worked on diesel engines before, so I'm quite a newbie to this. Please be patient .. and if I make spelling errors that's propably because I'm from Sweden, we do that kind of things here..

Shorebilly · #2 12-29-2006, 06:17 PM

Welcome, there are several posts here relating to some people in Finland who do all kinds of High Performance work on these OM617 Motors....if you can find a way to contact them.....they should be able to help you, may even have some books in Swedish...at least you will be closer if you want to borrow tools.....

SB

vstech · #3 12-29-2006, 09:49 PM

That motor has no turbo, hence no alda, there is an ada or something like that for similar function to the alda, but very little can be done to it performance wise. also, it is a 79 or older motor because it has the large body series style glow plugs.
what is the intended function for this motor? are you going to put it into a 240D or transplant to a different altogether vehicle? give us some details
Welcome to the forum!
click on the USER CP link at the top of each page and edit your profile add your location, and other things.
ENJOY,
John

JimmyL · #4 12-29-2006, 09:57 PM

It appears to either be a wagon motor, or a euro that had SLS. In the link in his sig. there are pics of engine from front in some type of automobile. There is a plate over where the hydraulic pump would go....

Brian Carlton · #5 12-29-2006, 09:57 PM

Welcome to the forum.

As mentioned above, the 617.912 has no ALDA because it has no turbo.

From the photo, the only vacuum related function that I see is the VCV.......the vacuum control valve for the transmission. It does appear that the PO routed the vacuum lines incorrectly. The port on the top of the VCV is the supply vacuum and the line goes onto the transmission. The port on the side of the VCV is a vent line.........it goes into the cabin to allow "clean" air to enter the system.

I presume that your engine has no EGR........which is what our vacuum systems also operate over here.

maddogg20 · #6 12-29-2006, 09:57 PM

welcome. I have vac probs constantly too lol. Anyway welcome, You will find a wealth of knowledge here.

JimmyL · #7 12-29-2006, 10:04 PM

Yall ought to read his link. Very interesting resurrection he is undertaking....

tompaah7503 · #8 12-30-2006, 05:37 PM

Brian & John,
thanks for you replies.

Jimmy: Previous owner says it came out of an W123-body, my guess is a 75-79 300D.

In the picture below, which device is the vacuum control valve? (My guess: C)
When pressing lever B down, and then holding my finger at the vacuum port A, the lever stays down. Apparently vacuum controls this lever..

There is also two larger vacuum lines coming out of the vacuum pump, visible in top/left of the picture, the yellowish ones. These are not currently connected to anything. I suspect this is not how it should be..

The intended usage for this engine is to power an old fintail Benz, read more on the link in my signature. Thus I don't need the vacuum to power locks or A/C control, only for the very basic needs of running the engine and transmission.

Thanks again!

Brian Carlton · #9 12-30-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompaah7503

Brian & John,
thanks for you replies.

Jimmy: Previous owner says it came out of an W123-body, my guess is a 75-79 300D.

In the picture below, which device is the vacuum control valve? (My guess: C)
When pressing lever B down, and then holding my finger at the vacuum port A, the lever stays down. Apparently vacuum controls this lever..

There is also two larger vacuum lines coming out of the vacuum pump, visible in top/left of the picture, the yellowish ones. These are not currently connected to anything. I suspect this is not how it should be..

The intended usage for this engine is to power an old fintail Benz, read more on the link in my signature. Thus I don't need the vacuum to power locks or A/C control, only for the very basic needs of running the engine and transmission.

Thanks again!

You are correct. C is the vacuum control valve.

Can't see clearly the lever or the port that you're referring to. This engine is a bit different than the one's over here.

One of those two large lines coming from the vacuum pump surely went to the brake booster. The second one is the real question. Again, different from here.

Samuel M. Ross · #10 12-31-2006, 12:02 AM

Vacuum system questions about this vintage are of interest to me too... and I can confirm that the 617.912 engine was put in 300D models from 1977 to 1981 according to my favorite reference... but who knows where your's came from over there in lapland!
My favorite vacuum system diagram/schematic source for these vintage diesel MBs is www.PeterSchmid.Com and IF you go to: http://www.peterschmid.com/vacuum.htm ,
you will likely find 3 similar diagrams that might help you with your puzzle.
As I see it, your task is to build an engine/tranny vacuum control system around the tranny that you will install which I believe was only identified as a "722". On the same PeterSchmid.Com WebSite you can find a transmission application guide at: http://www.peterschmid.com/mbapplication.htm and from my checking this, assuming you are talking an automatic tranny, it appears that this engine most likely will work with one of these trannies: 722.118 / 722.109 / 722.315 / 722.317 .

I'm speculating a bit here so did you say you already have a tranny... is it an automatic?
Regards,

Samuel M. Ross · #11 12-31-2006, 12:17 AM

for I just discovered Thomas' / [ " tompaah750 " ] page showing the freshly cleaned up tranny tags/I.D. stampings at: http://fatfranz.wordpress.com/files/2006/12/trannynos.jpg , and this leads me to believe this looks like it might just possibly be a 722.205 or 722.206 tranny out of a 115 chassis MBz... but I could be wrong! Ii'm wrong... your engine was not put in 115 chassis MBZ(s) and it just dawned on me that you have both engine and tranny from different cars and you putting them into a third car's chassis !
You are more brave that I "Gunga Din" [Rudyard Kipling]!!
Regards,

tompaah7503 · #12 01-02-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

One of those two large lines coming from the vacuum pump surely went to the brake booster. The second one is the real question. Again, different from here.

Time to bang my head agains an old oil-pan or something.
The first line goes to the br.booster, and the second one of course to all the rest of the vacuum system..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel M. Ross

for I just discovered Thomas' / [ " tompaah750 " ] .. this leads me to believe this looks like it might just possibly a 722.205 or 722.206 tranny out of a 115 chassis MBz... but I could be wrong! Ii'm wrong... your engine was not put in 115 chassis MBZ(s) and it just dawned on me that you have both engine and tranny from different cars and you putting them into a third car's chassis !
You are more brave that I "Gunga Din" [Rudyard Kipling]!!
Regards,

Quite right, engine and tranny is of unknown origin and doesn't necessary come from the same car. They were, though, used in that particular combination last time so they should work together. (my picture shows it's a 722 117, hence I believe it was from a 240D according to the table. I don't see no reason why a 240D-tranny shouldn't work in a 300D-application, it's not like I am in the process of building a rocket-fueled racer..

)

Thanks for the link, it was really great. Found the picture at
http://www.peterschmid.com/vacuum/1980/617_912.jpg
which really clarifies things for me. The "thermo-vacuum-dingadoo" and "EGR valve" is not present on my engine (the rest is there) but that just simplifies my task of getting it together.

Don't know if this is a particular brave project, have done some car repair works in the past and I have a couple of drag racing builders to assist me (those cars are really beyond the concept of "transplanting"..) so I have complete confidence that I will pull this through.

Thanks for all your help so far. Invaluable!

Edit: I wish you a happy new year and a lot of miles behind the MB steering wheel!

tompaah7503 · #13 01-06-2007, 11:39 AM

Just found this vacuum gauge at a thrift store for $1, seems to be working.
Would it be useful in measuring vacuum in my car?
(Photographed without the glass to avoid reflexes on the photo)

Brian Carlton · #14 01-06-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompaah7503

Just found this vacuum gauge at a thrift store for $1, seems to be working.
Would it be useful in measuring vacuum in my car?
(Photographed without the glass to avoid reflexes on the photo)

Yep, that will be fine for measuring vacuum.

Samuel M. Ross · #15 01-13-2007, 09:57 PM

... I wouldn't miss following along with your automotive organ transplant!

You mentioned the vacuum diagram:
http://www.peterschmid.com/vacuum/1980/617_912.jpg

As you can see below my Son & I have a 1980 240D and 300D.

Q - Do you plan to model the transplant around this vacuum system layout?

Regards,