ULSD, some confusion!! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Shorebilly · #1 01-03-2007, 09:12 AM

Folks,

I went to Astorq MB in Parkersburg, WV yesterday.....wanted an OEM thermostat and MB Antifreeze ($19.50/gal

).....got to look at a new Bluetec engine in one of the big MB SUV's (forget model #).....discussion with service and sales personnel wound up on the availability of ULSD.

MB Service manager claims that ULSD is hard to find in this area.....I was a bit surprised.....because I had read here that "All" service stations will be carrying ULSD by 10/15/2006......so I did a search "Google"......and after reading several websites.....I find that only in California is the requirement for All stations to carry ULSD......it appears that in the rest of the USA, service station operators have the "option" to carry ULSD.....or LSD (fuel not the other stuff

)......

So, now I wonder....exactly what am I paying for.....I have yet to see the new pump labeling for ULSD (other than what it should look like)......so according to the MB dealership.....I should not consider the fuel to be ULSD unless the pump labeling indicates such.......

check this link for some good info..... www.factsonfuel.org/diesel/index.html#2diesel

Apparently if a service station has not updated it's pump labeling, then they can sell either the LSD or ULSD......

The fuel that I have been getting is the Lime Green colored stuff.......but I don't always look at the pre-filter to look at fuel color.....the MB service manager says that there is a wide variation in color in the Parkersburg, WV area, so color is not a definite indicator......and I live some 60 miles out in the country from the dealership......now I have a hard time believing that my local fuel supply is more consistent than what is found in the civilized areas......

SB

TheDon · #2 01-03-2007, 10:15 AM

All the fuel I have gotten lately is ULSD. Perhaps its because of your area?

SwampYankee · #3 01-03-2007, 10:24 AM

CT has switched to ULSD in a "me-too" effort to keep up with CA.

Since there is some concern with the lubrication properties of the ULSD is there something I should be adding to the tank (a la Re-Lead when unleaded gas was mandated)?

Hatterasguy · #4 01-03-2007, 10:39 AM

In CT all the pumps I have seen have the ULSD sticker on them.

uberwgn · #5 01-03-2007, 10:45 AM

Guys, if 90% of all diesel fuel being produced at this time is ULSD (S15), how many stations could be selling LSD (S500)?

Ignore the labels on the pump, the station owners don't know/don't care.

Ether · #6 01-03-2007, 10:55 AM

The pumps at the Murhpy (Wal Mart) station where I fill up are labeled LSD 500

TimFreeh · #7 01-03-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberwgn

Guys, if 90% of all diesel fuel being produced at this time is ULSD (S15), how many stations could be selling LSD (S500)?

Ignore the labels on the pump, the station owners don't know/don't care.

About half the stations I see on the Delmarva pennisula are currently dispensing fuel that is labeled S500, about half have S15 stickers. All pumps I've seen in any region carry stickers that identify the fuel they are dispensing and as I understand it Federal law mandates that pumps have this information on them - and it must be accurate.

Do you have any backup documentation that 90% of refining capacity is now producing ULSD? ULSD is not mandatory for all refiners until something like 2009-2010, until then we are in a transisition period from S500 to S15 and both fuels will be available.

If I had a 2007 Bluetec engine I'd certainly pay attention to the stickers on the pumps - failure to do so will void your warranty.

#8 01-03-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberwgn

Guys, if 90% of all diesel fuel being produced at this time is ULSD (S15), how many stations could be selling LSD (S500)?

Ignore the labels on the pump, the station owners don't know/don't care.

That's most likely the issue. Commercial (non-road) users who still want to use LSD (for the slightly higher energy content) are having trouble finding it. Regardless of the labels, I suspect the vast majority of the fuel being pumped today is ULSD.

uberwgn · #9 01-03-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

Do you have any backup documentation that 90% of refining capacity is now producing ULSD?

There are weekly petroleum production reports posted. I don't know where they're pulled from, but they appear to be public info. The ratio of ULSD/LSD is very high and the inventories of S15 are rising, S500 is falling.

Cross-contamination concerns have a major influence on what the refineries are kicking out. They're being forced to produce S7 or S8 (think extra costs) and have to keep their fingers crossed that it's still below the mandated spec when it arrives at the opposite end of the pipe. A little bit of residual sulfur from previous batches of S500 quickly contaminate the S7 and make it unsale-able.

Whether permitted by EPA or not, LSD is gonna be a hard commodity to purchase as time passes as it only takes a tiny bit of sulfur to push the ULSD off spec

MattBelliveau · #10 01-03-2007, 01:03 PM

I thought it was some kind of Federal thing that ALL pumps had to be ULSD by 2007...

greasybenz · #11 01-03-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberwgn

Guys, if 90% of all diesel fuel being produced at this time is ULSD (S15), how many stations could be selling LSD (S500)?

Ignore the labels on the pump, the station owners don't know/don't care.

i dont think that would be the correct additued when it comes to owning a bluetec. It would be a hassle to own one if you have to go looking for a ULSD pump and if you just happen to fill up with LSD and clog that emission crap they put on then your warranty wont cover it as it was misfueling! then youll have to pay through the butt to get all the new emission parts put on.

I really think they should sell these cars to california, we already have ULSD mandated at every pump why not sell the cars to the state that wont have problems with them? Damn EPA.

nhdoc · #12 01-03-2007, 03:02 PM

Several of our local stations had ULSD stickers and now have LSD stickers again...I don't know what that means practically but I do know they no longer say they say ULSD on them.

With all the hassles I have had with leaks that I blame directly on ULSD I wish they would just make up their minds and switch. My fear is that by going back and forth between LSD and ULSD I will be degrading the brand new fuel lines/seals I just got through installing and it will shorten their already short lives.

SwampYankee · #13 01-03-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

With all the hassles I have had with leaks that I blame directly on ULSD I wish they would just make up their minds and switch. My fear is that by going back and forth between LSD and ULSD I will be degrading the brand new fuel lines/seals I just got through installing and it will shorten their already short lives.

Is there a sulfur additive available (similar to Re-Lead for gas)?

vstech · #14 01-03-2007, 03:33 PM

AFAIK, the EPA mandates stickers to show when there is NOT ULSD in the pump. the whole "use of this fuel in 2007 and up vehicles will void warranty" and such bruhaha, so if the ultimate warning sticker is not there, the fuel should be safe for the bluetec motors... of course, I don't drive one, so I don't need to worry.

John

babymog · #15 01-03-2007, 05:17 PM

The lubricity of the fuel is controlled by additives at the refinery, which is designed to compensate for the lower sulfur content. It is not supposed to be necessary to add more lubricants.

Personally though, I like RedLine Oil's Diesel Fuel Catalyst for a good detergent/lubricant additive. ATF is supposed to work also. RedLine also has a product called 85+ or something like that which was designed for the '85-up Mercedes Trap Oxidizer system, but both this and the Diesel Fuel Catalyst are the same product today, in different bottles (available at Autozone here).