Oddity on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-RARE-Mercedes-300-series-4matic-turbo-diesel-35-000km_W0QQitemZ130067416676QQihZ003QQcategoryZ6330QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I doubt it can be brought to the USA.

Wow, that's a rare bird. Long ago when I bought my TE 4matic, I did a lot of searching and asking if they'd ever make a diesel 4matic for us, no such luck.

It has to be a trick running the axle through the block of a diesel, pretty much need the block to be rigid, I guess Styre-Puch figured it out. Parts would certainly be impossible to find though, at least the front springs, engine block, and oil sump.

Cool.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

I would love a 300TD 4MATIC, I wish...

So what's this about running an axle through the block? Are you saying that because the diesel engine is big or are you saying that's how you're TE 4MATIC works as well?

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-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

Yeah, goofy looking setup. The right halfshaft goes through the block, cast oil pan/sump to help stiffen the engine, then they stretch a coil in each front spring to pass the halfshafts through them also.

On the wagon it uses the hydraulic mineral oil fluid for the suspension/PS to run the 4matic clutches in the transfer case and rear diff, I suppose they could have a hyd. pump in the sedan also instead of the regular PS pump.

On my '92 I remember the 4matic being a $24k option. My car was loaded, sticker was $74,400 roughly (from memory), seems odd to have a car with cloth interior, steel wheels, no bun-warmers etc. with that steep an option on it but perhaps Canada's pricing structure was different.

I think a '93 300TD 4matic would pretty much fill all of my daily-driving needs.

A couple of things I happened to notice however: In the US, the 4matic was only available '91-'93, not '87. I don't know if it was available elsewhere in '87. Also, the vented RF fender was never on '87s in the US, only the later 2.5TD cars, ... I wonder if this guy really has a 4matic or maybe a previous owner just stuck a badge on it? I've got to ask the guy about his car!! The newer 4matic system is not as robust IMO as the early '90s version, but much less expensive (viscous couplings).

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Wow, that's interesting. Sounds very unique and very expensive.

I was just looking at an original T-Series brochure for the W124 that looks to be around 87 or so (no side skirts on the wagon). It was in French unfortunately so I couldn't understand it, but there were lots of 300TD 4MATIC pictures.

We just pretty much get shafted here

Boy and I thought the Syncro system on my Vanagon was expensive...

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-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

that 4-matic Turbo will be a huge money S I N K H O L E

But I'll take it if someone wants to bring it over here! You notice the seller says US bidders contact me first, probably wants to get some assurance you know it will be difficult to get licenced in most states because of the VIN number being a Euro.

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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!

I looked at the micro-fiche today and can see:



300 D TURBODIESEL 4 MATIC 200-300 9/89-10/92; 200D-300D 9/89-7/93

E 300 TURBODIESEL/4MATIC 200-320 FROM 10/92; 200D-300D FROM 7/93

300 D TURBODIESEL 4 MATIC UP TO 09/89


It would be interesting to see the import/export docs to identify how many kms were on it when she left Europe...

That kind of surprises me, our '86 Vanagon Syncro was a pretty hardy truck for nearly 20years of hauling bikes and building supplies. It had some problems, but mostly little things. It did need the heads re-worked, and recently the engine locked up so I gave it away last week. The other VG syncro got a VR6 two years ago, let it go this past summer. Fast for an AWD van. Fun and very sturdy vehicles, always wished I had gone for the Westy version though (decided it wouldn't fit in the garage).

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Well when you have to rebuild the transmission of a Syncro, then you might say "it's expensive".

But this was back before I was into MB and now that I am, I can say that my 87 300TD is much more expensive to maintain than the Syncro.

I can't believe you gave away your Syncro just because of a dead motor. Talk about resell value, the Syncro is way up there. I just sold mine for $2k more than what I bought it for (and I paid a lot for it), and for the most part I just kept it clean and maintained it.

The Syncro Westy is cool, but with the stock engine it's a dog with all that extra camping equipment. Engine conversion is mandatory.

I dream about getting a 16" Syncro Westy, Joker version (high roof) one day and putting a TDI in it, like this...

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-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

Looks like it took some front end damage. Wouldn't go there at that BIN price. Notice large gap on passenger side both above and below headlight.

Doesn't bode well for for the front wheel drive portion of the 4Matic either.

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1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
2007 Pinarello F3:13
1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff)
1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD)

Yeah, love those syncro westys.

I kept the vanagon around dead for a year, planning a Tdi conversion, but the price tag and work involved kept me wondering if it was a bad idea especially after the VR6 conversion which always had another issue after 2 years of driving, it still wasn't completely reliable.

Ideally I'd like to put a larger diesel in it with a quattro driveline and dump the viscous-coupled system. The price of the Tdi conversion alone with all of the adaptors, re-ratioed differentials, etc. is close to the price of a decent 406 Unimog and I like 'mogs more. If it were a westy I might have thought different.

So, ... I wanted to keep the transaxle & diff and stuff for the VR6 van, but never had the time to remove it, so I gave it to someone who's going to bring it back to life. Lots of years of mountain-biking in that bus, I'll miss it.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

What if?

What if you had a 1987 300TD wagon and a 1991 300TE wagon 4 matic donor. Could you swap the drivelines?

you should read the earlier posts in this thread, a simple driveline swap would not make a RWD into a 4WD.

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-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

I would definately like to see pictures of the front axle assy. Half shaft goes through the block?

I would guess the transfer case is mounted behind the tranny and front diff. located to the side of the engine. Then a two piece axle assy used for one side of the differential, one fixed to clear the engine and one that articulates with the suspension. Seen on AWD eclipse and talons.

Curious. I wonder how much money I could blow on a project like that!

It would melt your credit card.

The hydraulics/clutches were controlled by the computers, which read input from the steering angle sensor, lateral-acceleration accelerometer, throttle position sensor, wheel speed sensors, etc., etc.

The transmission was specific to the 4matic, likely would be a problem to mate to a 603, the engine block special to take the right axle through the block under a main bearing, cast iron lower block/oil sump, so the 603 block couldn't be used either.

But if you ever try it, ... I want lots of photos.

The big thing to me is that after driving quattros in snow/ice for nearly 10years before buying my 4matic, the 4matic system was a poor comparison in performance. The 4matic system was a reactive system, meaning it would change its drive parameters based on what just happened, at which point it was often too late to save the car from a slide on ice etc. You had to really anticipate what the car would do and force it into different levels of engagement, knowing that it would drop out and get squirrely after a few seconds. The quattro system was always engaged and always ready for more power, much easier to drive hard. The 1st generation 4matic system was also expensive to maintain, mine had gone through two transfer-case re-seals in the first 100k miles, at my expense, $3500 each time (in mid-'90s dollars) and many parts will not be easily found new or used at this point.

The second 4matic system is little more than the eclipse/talon system you mentioned or VW's 4motion, good for getting stuck further from the road but far from a quattro's performance in hard-driving. I wouldn't waste your time on a 4matic of either generation.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff