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#1
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Fuel Injection Pump mayhem
I have a 1983 Mercedes 300D Turbo Diesel that recently would not start in the cold. Initially thought it was an issue with the glow plugs - and in fact there was - replaced them all. However, still would not start - cracked the injectors - no fuel came out. Then cracked the lines at the pump side - no fuel out of 1, 2 and 3 - fuel did spurt out of 4 and 5 like a spectacular fountain!
Is there anything I can do short of replacing the injection pump itself? |
#2
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This is with Diesel fuel right? I must ask, there is so much WVO/SVO stuff going around right now...
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#3
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Yes - This is good old standard #5 Diesel - > we first changed the fuel filters, possible fuel gelling issue - then added starting fluid - still would not turn - then glow plug replacement and added 'diesel fuel cetane boost' in the tank for 'faster cold starts'.
Could the output ports on the ip be clogged up? does this happen often, or is this more likely a plunger and barrel issue? |
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Remove the injector lines completly...spin motor over and watch for spurt from each injector element....if no, replace i/p.
They do go bad...but not often.....using this test will show if the metering plungers are injecting fuel....if only one or two spurt...this condems the pump....the 2000 psi potential will clear any obstructions in the check valves inside the elements....supposing it has not sat with water in fuel for 10 years. .
__________________
[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ] "A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." |
#5
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Lines completely removed - only diesel spurting from numbers 4 and 5.
Will check valve falure result in a non-injection event? |
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See my last post ...first line.
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__________________
[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ] "A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." |
#7
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I agree the pump has failed, however, could this be due to the check valves alone. I ask because we could replace the check valves without having to disassemble the rest of the pump - in which case at that point (more than check valves) - yes we would just replace it.
Trying to do everything we can to not replace it and spend mucho dinero. |
#8
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What seems funny to me is the amount of sudden failure. 1,2,and 3 elements not producing? Crank is not broken as it would be the reverse order. Same with the check valves not three at a time.
Only thing I can think of is there was something in the fuel. I Freely admit I know little when it comes to injector pumps. Since the pistons are free driven by the crank lobes the same as a camshaft acts against lifters I wonder if you have three pistons stuck up in their bores. Once I was certain I was going to have to change the pump I might remove the check valves and try to get them unseized if they are. at least it is very easy to establish if they are seized. There is simply no up and down movement. I wonder if a good dose of water might do this to a pump? Used pumps generally speaking if eventually required are not expensive. The hard part is to get a good one. Last edited by barry123400; 02-17-2007 at 08:46 PM. |
#9
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Remove the delivery valves and try it again. What you need to remove are the two items on the right in the last picture. Be sure to leave the valve body in the pump and reinstall the valve cap. PUT THE VALVES BACK IN THE SAME VALVE BODY THEY CAME OUT OF. They are machined to fit exactly their own valve body, mixing them can result in a loose or seized valve.
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#10
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Quote:
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Terry Allison N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama 09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA) 09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.) |
#11
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Yes, the pump plungers could be stuck.....
Yes, your pump plungers could be stuck in the "up" position, thus not allowing the plunger to follow the pump cam.....
Something to check......there is a banjo bolt that holds the plastic return fuel line onto the IP.....this is not a plain banjo bolt...it is a pressure regulator....inside of that banjo bolt is a little spring loaded valve....it's purpose is to maintain a positive pressure within the IP's fuel gallery.....if it is stuck...or has been somehow been exchanged for a plain banjo bolt.....you may not have enough fuel pressure getting to the #1,2, and 3 pumping elements..... SB
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Diesels: '85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG '84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG '77 240D (parts car) '67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP) Gassers: '94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG '85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car '58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG |
#12
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Clamping off the return line might be a simular test to see if the return pressure regulator is open.
Really you would have to process quite a bit of water to tear up the injection pumps cylinder walls and pistons enough to stick them. Three going down with water at the same time also seems unlikely. Or perhaps some contaminate has glued the pistons up. If everything else does not free them and you do in the end find they are stuck. I would run a dose of laquer thinner through the pump. It might dissolve the chemical responsible. Of course with the injector lines off the engine. Never use something like varsol as it seizes things up. I have seen bunker C in fuel or something that resembles it. Although any contaminate in the fuel is possible. I always thought the usual source was a delivery tanker that was not cleaned out well enough before diesel fuel was loaded. Or even worse had some other chemical in the tank still. Again three plungers not producing at the same time seems unusual enough to indicate something other than a worn out pump. One element not producing all of a sudden would be more rational if pump was wearing out. I like the last posters ideal better than mine. Basically no feed pressure existent in main pump body for practical purposes. Or perhaps just too substandard. A pressure gauge on the return line port might give an additional clue. I am out of my depth at this point with injection pumps as my knowledge is so limited. Still I would try all the things mentioned if I felt they had any chance. It would be nice to see you beat down the problem by any means and method it takes. You want to find the cause of no output on those three elements before giving up on the pump if possible. I will keep checking your thread and others posts from time to time so I can learn something. Thanks for your input Shorebilly. I was really having difficulty with how three elements could suddenly drop out yet the last two elements still perform. Last edited by barry123400; 02-19-2007 at 03:33 PM. |
#13
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wanted to follow up - fuel pump is back in action - took it fully apart sprayed it down with brake cleaner - put it back together - happy times! haven't had an issue with it since.
winter is coming up - I think one of the reasons it stoped firing was low fuel in the first place crossed with cold weather. working on suspension now - wahoo! |
#14
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Quote:
__________________
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car" |
#15
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thanks everyone for your input - > that was a trying time as it was my only means of transportation at that point.
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