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#76
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Use the $8 sway bar links.
What was causing the noise? I see lots of entries about brake pads and brake bleeding, but nothing about the noise and drag? As near as I can tell, you didn't have any problems with the brakes, so changing fluid and pads and calipers is well and good for the longevity of the car, but have you fixed the reason the car is up on jackstands? Buying rebuilt calipers is the way to go. It is basically swapping your for the last guy's calipers that just got rebuilt. You'll pay a core charge if you don't return your calipers when you buy the rebuilt one. That's the way it works. Finding a rebuilder just to make sure you get your calipers back doesn't really make a difference. I wouldn't try to work the caliper free, or try to "rebuild" it myself by taking it apart and cleaning it. Just get a rebuilt one.
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Mark in MA 05 MB E320CDI 402k Granite Grey Metallic 05 MB E320CDI 267k Black 05 MB E320CDI 232k White 05 MB E320CDI 209k Tectite Grey 99 Dodge 2500 Cummins 5sp 148k 62 Jeep CJ-6 120k |
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What makes you sure it's the appropriate thing? Have you done it yourself? The two links are different, one (the original) is longer than the other, and the way they attach at both ends is totally different... I just want to make sure you are right (I hope you are)
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I just discovered that the rear rotors are at a tilted angle with the calipers (wearing out the pads exactly at that angle on both rear sides)... for details please see: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=181100&page=3 Quote:
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We have gone from a hypothesis to another and to yet another here over the past few days... I hope this is it and that I can finally get to drive my car again soon... Thanks, Rino
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#78
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The point, and therefore value, of a forum is to help in an "unknown" area to identify what's important and what isn't.
Sway bars are not important. Don't take that out of context. You want to have sway bars on your car, it makes a significant difference in handling. But you don't need them to drive. To repair them, you can use a piece of wood and two carriage bolts and it performs just as well as factory. That's what I mean by not important. Don't dwell on whether you made the right sway bar link decision. Brakes are important. Unless you have a clean, well lit, and properly tooled environment, I wouldn't risk rebuilding a caliper myself. Buying a rebuilt is just too logical. Doing something poorly during the caliper rebuild can have much worse effects than putting the sway bar link in wrong. "rotor tilted" is confusing to me. Unless the whole bearing assembly is tilted with reference to the backing plate, then your wheel would wobble driving down the road. If wear is uneven on the rotor or the pads, then I would replace the rotors, pads, and calipers and be done with it. As someone previously stated, worn parking brake shoes are no big deal, because they are not designed to do any functional braking, just keeping the car still while parked. You should be able to rotate the rotor by hand (with parking brake released), but it will take some work. It won't spin without resistance. This is normal. If both tires are in the air, it should rotate the opposite tire in the opposite direction. If the transmission is in neutral, it may instead spin the driveshaft. If it takes "tools" or unusual force to rotate a rotor, then something is wrong. If there's is significant metal-on-metal sound, then something is wrong. Find the root cause, but don't overthink the problem. It usually is fairly simple, and it's not often that two things break at the same time. Keep that in mind as you troubleshoot.
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Mark in MA 05 MB E320CDI 402k Granite Grey Metallic 05 MB E320CDI 267k Black 05 MB E320CDI 232k White 05 MB E320CDI 209k Tectite Grey 99 Dodge 2500 Cummins 5sp 148k 62 Jeep CJ-6 120k |
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Rino my fine friend from LA. I'll put one of the "common links" on my '79 240D tonite with pictures and so you can see. I know you want to save money, we all do. But brakes, in my opinion, are not the place to cheapen up. How much will it cost if they completely fail? I'd be willing to bet a whole lot more than $300. Get rebuilds and be done with it if that turns out to be the problem.
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--------------------------- No matter how many times you explain it to me, I'm still right.....Surf-n-Turf |
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I would buy "loaded", (complete with pads installed) rebuilt callipers. I get the less expensive pads as they wear out faster than the better ones but your rotors last longer.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car" |
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I also am confused to the "tilted" rotor... assuming the pad and the rotor are in plane, the face of the rotor should be perpendicular with the earth... Plumb if you will. and it should be parallel with the frame of the car. if you can describe what is "tilted" it may help us figure out what is wrong.
looking at the rotor from the back of the car, what is tilted? the outer edge to the inner edge of the braking surface? that points to bad rotor and caliper both. give some more details. John
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
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I mean, di I go ahead and change everything (rotors, calipers, pads)? Or start with the pads and see how that goes? How about that strange pad wear pattern? Thank you so much, Rino
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#83
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Makes sense to you? Rino
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#84
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Thanks, Rino
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#85
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Back to original issue...serious noise and drag...able to limp home but must fix the problem before it's driven again. From that description, the problem is not caused by sway bar link. It is not caused by uneven brake pad wear. It is not caused by worn rotors. I doubt your rotors are "tilted". It is not caused by old brake fluid. Something mechanical changed and should be easily diagnosed. I still support my previous post that a nut from the sway bar link bushing fell inside the parking brake shoe area and is binding against the back of the rotor in that area. Find the source of the noise and drag. Fix that. Once the caliper is removed from the backing plate (two bolts, I believe they're 18mm), the rotor should come off easily. If it doesn't want to come, a little PB Blaster or WD40 in the area around the center hub and a little persuasion with a rubber mallet should work. (Make sure your parking brake is released) Then once the mechanical problem is fixed, take a look at the brakes to see if you want to address this, or reassemble as is. I recently helped a friend replace brakes on a BMW 5series, and the rotors he ordered online were incorrect. They fit on the hub, but once the caliper was bolted back on, they bound up. Upon careful inspection, the actual rotor surface was about .100" offset from the original unit. Had we continued with these rotors, they would've torqued the caliper, which would've worn the pads at an angle as you described. Not sure if this is your problem or not. If it were my high-mileage, 20 something year old car, I would just replace the rotors, buy rebuilt calipers, and new pads. Shop around online and you can find good prices. If the total for this (I'm guessing around $300) is too steep at the moment, put it all back together the way it was, and drive it for a while until you're ready. Changing just pads, or just rotors, etc., will just frustrate you and cost you more when you have to replace them again shortly. I'm 99% confident that the unusual wear on your pads has absolutely nothing to do with the catastrophic problem you experienced 1/2 mile from your house.
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Mark in MA 05 MB E320CDI 402k Granite Grey Metallic 05 MB E320CDI 267k Black 05 MB E320CDI 232k White 05 MB E320CDI 209k Tectite Grey 99 Dodge 2500 Cummins 5sp 148k 62 Jeep CJ-6 120k |
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UPDATE: the horrible noise is gone!
I've come back to the forum ASAP to report this:
about an hour ago I had to stop by my house (with about half an hour idle time on my hands...) I had a flash of inspiration, went downstairs, tightened up the tires lug bolts and started driving the car around the block (just to check the status of things...) SURPRISE, SURPRISE! The horrible noise (the one that started 1/2 mile from my residence the last day I drove the car and gave me much concern) is gone... I drove the car for about 30 minutes. No signs of that loud metal-to-metal noise (coming from the right wheel) whatsoever! Now can somebody explain this? The only things I did, which might have impacted whatever the problem was, were: changing the brake fluid two days ago (by the way, braking power is great) and removing and putting back the rear brake pads and shims... Of course, there are still the minor noises which have been going on for some time now: the clunk noise, which happened only during the first four or five RIGHT turns (on right turns only) - CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK! CLUNK! about five clunks per turn - and then disappeared (as whatever was producing it warmed up, I presume) and the rumbling noise, happening unpredictably once in a while (it happened thrice during the 30-minute drive) when turning, either left or right - RUMBLE... RUMBLE... RUMBLE... RUMBLE... at each turn... Now these don't worry me (perhaps they should) as much as the terrible one that showed up a few days ago and is now gone did, but will replacing the sway bar links stand a chance of taking care of these lesser noises, in your opinion? Quote:
What do you make of it? Question: how could a nut fall inside the parking brake shoe area... I couldn't even find it when I looked for it two days ago... I think it's covered and that you need to remove something to access it... but I might be wrong... Quote:
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IDEAS? Thanks for your help, Rino
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#87
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FWIW, I once had a "horrible" noise from a rear wheel after rotating the tires. It turned out that one of the front rims was bent slightly, it had plenty of clearance on the front, but it rubbed the rear hub on every rotation. I removed the wheel and could see rub marks on the inside of the wheel. Your comment about tightening the lug bolts reminded me of that. Did you move any wheels around?
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#88
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Rino
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#89
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ok, I see you put in pads, did you check the two 17mm bolts that hold the caliper to the spindle? the only thing I can think of that would allow the pads to wear in that pattern is the calipers pivoting as you apply pressure to them.
they should be VERY TIGHT, and the caliper should not move at all. I would pull off the wheels, and check the calipers. loosen the pads up, and try to wiggle the calipers. they should not move at all in any direction. the horrible noise was most likely just the edge of the pads touching the rotor hat. check this, and report back. John
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#90
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Thanks for pointing to possible loose calipers... I didn't check those bolts, but I will first thing as soon as I put the car up again... However, I have to say that I remember the calipers being firmly attached to the frame. I'll wait until I get the shipment with the new brake shims (the ones installed right now are in very poor shape...) and the sway bar links, then take the wheels off and do everything in one session. This is probably going to happen on Wednesday night, so you'll know by the following morning. One question: when I pulled the old pads out a few days ago, I tried to push the calipers' pistons back for ease of reinsertion, but to no avail. I was using one of those specific tools made for this purpose that you buy at auto part stores... but it was not easy at all, since there is no place to anchor the tool for leverage in these old calipers, or to place the part of the tool supposed to push in the piston directly centered on the piston... in short, those parts within the caliper you are supposed to apply the tool on are hard to reach... Does anyone know how to make this procedure a little easier? Thanks, Rino
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
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