Marvel mystery oil too strong to soak injectors? - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #46 03-09-2007, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

And what is a borescope? Or are you saying that you are bored??
I won't deny that this is not an easy decision. Brightside, I have all the time in the world to figure out what to do next.

Think of a periscope. Now think of this periscope with a flexible neck. It allows you to do a look see in the cylinder head

Frankie · #47 03-09-2007, 11:29 PM

Oh OK thanks Aklim! but I think I need to find another mechanic. This one is good but if I have one more suggestion on how he should do his job ie. look down there with a borescope, he'll kick my a--.
Greasy Benz (Ruben) if you are still around, I'll PM you for that diesel shop address. They would have a borescope, right?
F.

aklim · #48 03-09-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadavis

Run some biodiesel (High percentages) for a few tanks. It may help loosen the carbon buildup on the rings that is keeping them from moving and sealing properly. Cold WVO is the death of the rings. It cokes the rings and causes them to bind in place. When they do that they are not free to move and seal against the cylinder wall.

-Jim

But if it is the rings, wouldn't a compression and/or leakdown test point there? Assuming the mechanic is honest and decent, wouldn't those tests have indicated that the problem lies in the head? If so, how would the rings now show up on the two tests?

Jadavis · #49 03-09-2007, 11:49 PM

I may be missing something here, but if the rings are not sealing right it will show up as lower compression on that cylinder.

As for the mechanic having a borescope, not likely. At least not for another 5 years. The prices are just way too high. Last time I checked (5 years ago) a top of the line one used to inspect the insides of huge gas turbines ran about $32,000. Hard to justify that on a car.

-Jim

aklim · #50 03-09-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadavis

I may be missing something here, but if the rings are not sealing right it will show up as lower compression on that cylinder.

So will valves not sealing right. In any case, they do a dry compression test followed by a wet one. In the wet one, some oil is squirted into the cylinder. This acts as a sealant for the cylinder. So, if the pressure goes up by more than a few psi, you might have bad rings. If the pressure doesn't change, your head is where the problem is.

Frankie · #51 03-09-2007, 11:55 PM

Crap Jadavis, you are the bearer of bad news. A borescope costs that much?! That diesel shop might not have one then. I'll phone them first before going to Plan B.
The compression (cold I think) was 200 on #5. Refer back on previous page posts. I don't want to drag this out or waste your time guys. You shared lots of wisdom and ideas. I am better now than I was 2 days ago!
Thanks a million!
F.

aklim · #52 03-10-2007, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

Crap Jadavis, you are the bearer of bad news. A borescope costs that much?! That diesel shop might not have one then. I'll phone them first before going to Plan B.
The compression (cold I think) was 200 on #5. Refer back on previous page posts. I don't want to drag this out or waste your time guys. You shared lots of wisdom and ideas. I am better now than I was 2 days ago!
Thanks a million!
F.

I haven't done one on a diesel yet but on a gas engine, we do a compression test dry and then wet. I assume he did the wet one too and/or a leakdown test to show that the problem was in the head?

Frankie · #53 03-10-2007, 02:12 AM

He didn't do a leakdown test while I was there, just the wrench test and the compression test.
f.

aklim · #54 03-10-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

He didn't do a leakdown test while I was there, just the wrench test and the compression test.
f.

You are saying then that he tested each cylinder twice? Once dry and the 2nd time with some oil or something squirted in it?

mespe · #55 03-10-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

I've heard that it could happen in as little as 20 hours but was not counting on myself as being a casualty. I think it started a month before this trip. I was a "blender" in January, 4 gal WVO mixed with 12 gal biodiesel 50% and cetane boost. I'm very anti one tank system now. I was even telling my friend Katrina not to consider Lovecraft partly d/t they are censoring their internet forum. Sounds sketchy to me.
F.

I WOULD NEVER MIX WVO AND BD Any unreacted sodium methoxide will react in your tank giving you a bit of glyceril which is NOT good.

Also I don't believe it is wise to squirt a little oil in a diesel cylinder to test the compression,,, I remember reading somewhere that if you add oil to a diesel cylinder under test that you are libel to break something due to teh high compression already inherent in diesels,,,

aklim · #56 03-10-2007, 09:27 AM

You really think a light fogging of WD-40 or a couple drops of oil will hurt?

barry123400 · #57 03-10-2007, 11:08 AM

You are starting to get the cart ahead of the horse. Make sure the #5 valves have clearance. You have to remove the valve cover to do this but it is pretty easy. It does sound like your mechanic has not done this yet. Then after this is done you can test further so a decision can be arrived at. All else at this point is just speculation.
You have to have some hard facts to proceed. Your adjacent cylinder is so junked up that you are getting 500 lb readings? Whatever is in this engine will have to be gotten rid of by some method as well.
All you would see in there visually at this time is probably just a heavy layer of whatever the byproducts of the fuel have become. Probably pretty extensive as well. I suspect a heavy gummy layer that is half baked. What do you see in your pre chambers now?
There are good and bad senarios possible here in my opinion. It also does not hurt to have those injectors tested either as with the coking possible they might be bad as well.
Without known good information gathered from testing and procceeding logically you cannot really get anywhere. Or even start to. There are just too many variables right now beyond normal problems as well perhaps. Above are just my opinions.
I am for you trying to restore this engine if a financially reasonable proposition. This is what you are responsible to determine in a way. I will go out on a limb and say for the actual fairly good mechanic out there you might have added such an uncommon spin he is also perhaps sure of nothing at this point.
Everyone posting with your senario or simular is appreciated as soon we will be able to buy cars with these issues and this teaches us if the situations are recoverable. Look at the bright side though as you have not damaged your injection pump as well.
Just to let you know you are not alone. I have a 1984d in the garage that was on unheated vegatable oil. I have it running now but have yet to uncoke the rings. Far too much blowby. It is a really true low milage example that actually looks like nobody has even sat in it. Paid 500.00 american for it as a road kill car. It would go for about 10k according to what I see on ebay these days. I hope I will be succesful in uncoking the rings when I get to it. Thanks to another members efforts and results so far with a simular problem I hope I can succeed.

bullwinkle · #58 03-10-2007, 01:03 PM

I would personally vote for the leakdown test-it doesn't require taking out anything but the glowplug (or injector depending on which adapter you have). I personally have had some luck with Mobil Delvac/Turbo Diesel Truck 5W40 with uncoking rings, seemed to help my blowby somewhat, just don't get cheap like I did and go back to running cheap dino oil or the problem will return. IMHO, the carbon buildup problem could be addressed by Italian tuneups once you get your injectors straightened out. If the engine needs resleeved/rebuilt, be prepared for the bill of your life (the 5 pistons alone will be in the neighborhood of $1000!

Frankie · #59 03-10-2007, 05:13 PM

Where the heck was this thread going before Barry and Bullwinkle AND a few others (you know who you are) brought it home again? The voices of REASON!
Barry it is too bad that we are in the same boat. I returned from my trip 5 days ago with a near empty tank and filled it the next day unfortunately before I brought her to my mechanics. Now I've collected her, unfixed with a full tank of dino diesel and nowhere to drive to. Using my other car, a Forrester. Nothing really new to report on Sophia except to shed light on the low compression, the COLD dry, compression done today on #5 was 100. Very grim indeed.
Clearer picture or more confusion? There are some very good, noninvasive (medical jargon) suggestions here. I'm for the borescope, installing good injectors and a full diagnostic check.
BTW, the Marvel mystery soak DOES work. It took 2 1/2 of soaking glass jar in 65 deg weather. The burnt on carbon was easily removed using very light scraping. Stay away from the center of the nose.
Frankie

barry123400 · #60 03-10-2007, 07:11 PM

Frank, the guys will try to help you. It is like a buffet. You take what you want off the table. Everyone always means well. We also all learn together. None of us were born with a wrench in our hands either.
In some ways you just may have got a break with that compression continuing to drop off so fast on that cylinder. In my opinion it makes troubleshooting a little easier. . At 100 lbs cold compression now your cylinder leakage is getting worst fast.. That cylinder for all practical purposes is dead now.
If you can just inject some air into that cylinder you shoulld hear it exit the tailpipe indicationg exhaust valve. The air cleaner area indicating intake valve. Or the oil fill cap indicating rings perhaps. A 617 engine is usually worth a valve repair if required. Thanks also for the apparent rate of cleaning by the marvel mystery oil.
I really think it is possible for you to work through this if you wish. A case in my mind of a paid for expansion of knowledge for yourself .You are simply paid with the money you would pay out to others.
With experience it all comes together. Priceless in avoiding or trying to identify and fend of unethical garages ripping you off over the years ahead to some extent. It does not totally eliminate the problem I find. Although I kind of know when the abuse or attempted abuse starts. I guess this is just my hard sell but the best regardless of what you decide.