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Checking Timing Question/Help
I recently did some tune up work on my 85D - valve adj, ALDA adj and diesel purge. The valve and ALDA work were most beneficial in my case. The ALDA adj gave it more power but engine seems to be running just a bit rough. No smoke. Best noticeable side effect is smoother tranny shifting.
Now, I just want to make sure that the timing is correct. How do you check it in the 617? Is it like a gasser where there are timing marks at the crankshaft that can be lined up? Is a tool like a timing light necessary? Thanks in advance for your help.
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the sooner you start... the sooner you'll get done If it ain't broke, don't fix it.. Its always simpler to tell the truth... 2007 Honda Accord EX 2007 Honda Accord SE V6 96 C220 97 Explorer - Found Another Home 2000 Honda Accord V6 - Found Another Home 85 300D - Found Another Home 84 300D - Found Another Home 80 300TD - Found Another Home Previous cars: 96 Caravan 87 Camry 84 Cressida 82 Vanagon 80 Fiesta 78 Nova Ford Cortina Opel Kadet 68 Kombi Contessa |
#2
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Dude, I havent set it yet, but its not like a gasser, there are no electric timing connections, ie. wires to use a light on. Timing is mechanical and govered by the injector pump. I need to get a red/green two bulb gizmo to check it. I'm not sure about your vintage. There must be a D-I_Y link here somewhere. NOT HAVING DONE IT YET,it seems as simple as getting the engine to 15 degrees BTDC and checking the IP.
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Thanks, 427L88. I kinda knew that its not done like a gasser but I thought I'd mention it anyway as a comparison.
I mentioned earlier that the engine is a bit rough but I think its more like a bit louder. It does accellerate more like a gasser now though. The car actually responds when you hit the gas pedal .
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the sooner you start... the sooner you'll get done If it ain't broke, don't fix it.. Its always simpler to tell the truth... 2007 Honda Accord EX 2007 Honda Accord SE V6 96 C220 97 Explorer - Found Another Home 2000 Honda Accord V6 - Found Another Home 85 300D - Found Another Home 84 300D - Found Another Home 80 300TD - Found Another Home Previous cars: 96 Caravan 87 Camry 84 Cressida 82 Vanagon 80 Fiesta 78 Nova Ford Cortina Opel Kadet 68 Kombi Contessa |
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Which timing are you interested in checking?
IP timing........or camshaft timing? |
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Quote:
I was just reading my Haynes manual and finally found discussion on what must be IP timing adjustment. It talked about and showed using a drip tube tool, lining up the timing mark at TDC (23-25 deg), loosening screw at filter to relieve any air in fuel line by pumping hand pump, turning camshaft, watch drip tube at rate of one drip/sec. I don't know where to get the drip tube tool but seems easy enough to duplicate using copper pipe and a brass fitting. Just need to know the npt thread type and size of the tool. I have not come across camshaft timing discussion yet. Either way, I am just trying to make sure that the engine is running the way it should especially after the Alda adjustment I made.
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the sooner you start... the sooner you'll get done If it ain't broke, don't fix it.. Its always simpler to tell the truth... 2007 Honda Accord EX 2007 Honda Accord SE V6 96 C220 97 Explorer - Found Another Home 2000 Honda Accord V6 - Found Another Home 85 300D - Found Another Home 84 300D - Found Another Home 80 300TD - Found Another Home Previous cars: 96 Caravan 87 Camry 84 Cressida 82 Vanagon 80 Fiesta 78 Nova Ford Cortina Opel Kadet 68 Kombi Contessa |
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Before actually resetting the timing read the archives. Find out how to determine how much chain stretch you have if any and what is allowable. Also if you have allowable stretch read about using a correction key for the camshaft if the need is indicated. They are quite cheap if required.
Again into the archives as some people have posted extensive instructions over the years on both items. Them set the injector pump timing. You are good to go for quite awhile then with maximum efficiency. After the first time at this it will be like rolling off a log the second or subsequent times. Thats if they occur of course. Also read up about checking the chain guides as it seems they are usually the reason the chain lets go with disasterous results normally . A little knowledge in this area is a good thing. To ignore it can be folly with our average high milage cars that perhaps have not been checked for many, many years. They just where driven as long as they ran. Some past owners thought no service was required as it is a diesel after all.. Overall this area is pretty inexpensive to work around in. The posted knowledge and experience is very extensively documented as well. Love to tinker covers it well. |
#7
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If you want to set timing in 10 minutes, rent the RIV lights from M.B. Doc and do the job properly. You've got the port on the '85 and the lights allow you to set timing accurately to 1 degree without any question of the result. Note that the tool is costly and he'll need a hefty deposit for it. Danny wrote up an excellent DIY article for the camshaft timing. Check out the DIY list at the top of the page. |
#8
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How to check timing chain stretch:
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM617TimingChainStretch How to check injection pump timing: http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM615OM616InjPumpTiming Remember, if you correct your timing chain stretch, you have to reset your injection pump timing. Scott
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Scott 1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000) 1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold) 1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold) 1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!) 1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold) 1995 Ducati 900SS (sold) 1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold) 1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.) 1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold) 1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold) |
#9
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I was able to loosen the idle screw nut with no problem. Followed Brian's advise to soak with WD40.
Brian, a question on the TDC position vs the No 1 cam lobe position. If the timing mark is set on 24 deg, is the No 1 cylinder lobe (2nd Lobe) suppose to be at the one o'clock position (or is it the 11 o'clock position)?
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the sooner you start... the sooner you'll get done If it ain't broke, don't fix it.. Its always simpler to tell the truth... 2007 Honda Accord EX 2007 Honda Accord SE V6 96 C220 97 Explorer - Found Another Home 2000 Honda Accord V6 - Found Another Home 85 300D - Found Another Home 84 300D - Found Another Home 80 300TD - Found Another Home Previous cars: 96 Caravan 87 Camry 84 Cressida 82 Vanagon 80 Fiesta 78 Nova Ford Cortina Opel Kadet 68 Kombi Contessa |
#10
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If the #1 lobes are pointed upwards (11:00 or 1:00.......doesn't matter), the piston is on the compression stroke and not on the exhaust stroke. If you can't see the lobes (pointed down and opening the valves), it's on the exhaust stroke and you've got to go around again.
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#11
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Quote:
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the sooner you start... the sooner you'll get done If it ain't broke, don't fix it.. Its always simpler to tell the truth... 2007 Honda Accord EX 2007 Honda Accord SE V6 96 C220 97 Explorer - Found Another Home 2000 Honda Accord V6 - Found Another Home 85 300D - Found Another Home 84 300D - Found Another Home 80 300TD - Found Another Home Previous cars: 96 Caravan 87 Camry 84 Cressida 82 Vanagon 80 Fiesta 78 Nova Ford Cortina Opel Kadet 68 Kombi Contessa |
#12
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Sorry for being blunt, but you should remove your valve cover and use the markings on the cam tower and grear shown here
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM617TimingChainStretch have an accurate picture. I posted this link on your previous thread. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=181864 Once you know your timing is accurate (both chain and IP) then you can go on to other things.
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1983 123.133 California - GreaseCar Veg System Last edited by DeliveryValve; 03-20-2007 at 04:17 AM. |
#13
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Thanks for the reply, Pare....
I'll read the link you sent. I didn't know there were timing marks inside the valve cover. Also, is it the No 1 Cylinder or the 1st lobe that you line up (I don't recall anymore if the 1st lobe is the No 1 cyl or the 2nd lobe). Does positioning the lobe in that manner (about the 3 o'clock position) mean that the TDC is also suppose to be at 24 deg? Or is it just the lobe position that matters? Does this question make any sense?
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the sooner you start... the sooner you'll get done If it ain't broke, don't fix it.. Its always simpler to tell the truth... 2007 Honda Accord EX 2007 Honda Accord SE V6 96 C220 97 Explorer - Found Another Home 2000 Honda Accord V6 - Found Another Home 85 300D - Found Another Home 84 300D - Found Another Home 80 300TD - Found Another Home Previous cars: 96 Caravan 87 Camry 84 Cressida 82 Vanagon 80 Fiesta 78 Nova Ford Cortina Opel Kadet 68 Kombi Contessa Last edited by tobybul; 03-20-2007 at 09:47 AM. |
#14
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The only real way to accurately get timing is the 2mm lift method.
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http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg 1995 E420 Schwarz 1995 E300 Weiss #1987 300D Sturmmachine #1991 300D Nearly Perfect #1994 E320 Cabriolet #1995 E320 Touring #1985 300D Sedan OBK #42 |
#15
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Quote:
Yes this is the best method to know for sure. But you can use the timing marks in a pinch and can be accurate if your marks are correct (you wouldn't know until you use the 2mm lift method). Quote:
24 degrees BTDC about when the number one injector should spray. You woud set your IP to that spec. Check out the links to timing stretch and IP drip method stated earlier and we'll help you through this!
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1983 123.133 California - GreaseCar Veg System |
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