Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-27-2007, 06:36 AM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Blistering 24 sec. 0-60mph in a 124

What would the 0-60 time be on a 124 if it was getting no boost? My new 124 is quite slow. The car is very slow 0-30 but pulls a little better 30-60. It may shift a little early too. I adjusted the alda on my other 124 and it made quite a difference. But I don't think it will cut the 0-60 time in half for the new car. I have a mity vac, can I check the boost by plugging into the line from the alda to the switch on the firewall? If not there where? What should I look for first if I find no boost?

PS: kickdown switch doesn't work either.

__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-27-2007, 10:24 AM
Gene
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,102
Well, gearing makes work easier, so I'd focus on the kickdown rather than the boost, or at least as much. While it doesn't effect 0-60, its huge in driving application, i.e. 30-60
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-27-2007, 12:58 PM
2.5Turbo's Avatar
602 648 113 A630
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 900
If you're getting those times on one of those 87's in your sig, then something is definitely wrong. The 603 in the '87 doesn't use a vacuum controlled wastegate like the 602 in the 90-93 300D, it has the old pressure activated one. First off, check fuel and air filters. Second, be sure that your ALDA lines are clear and the overboost valve and switch are functioning properly. To test, just temporarily run a line from the manifold fitting to the ALDA directly. If that doesn't help, check the tank strainer, mine was pretty gunked after 100k. You also might want to check out the timing chain stretch since that can hurt your performance if it's really bad. Past that, unfortunately you're going to have to dig into the turbo or IP.

To test your boost, you're going to need a boost gauge, not a mityvac. Put a Y connector between the manifold and the ALDA and run a line to the boost gauge from the Y. You should be getting 12-14psi at full boost with the ALDA functioning.

My 602-powered '90 gets about an 18-19 second 0-60 when there's no boost.
__________________
Dale

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g1...MG_2277sig.jpg

1990 300D 2.5 Turbo -155k
2000 E430 - 103k
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel 4x4 - 11k
2014 VW Passat TDI SE - 7k Bro's Diesel
2006 E320 CDI - 128k Pop's Benz


Pre-glow - A moment of silence in honor of Rudolph Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-27-2007, 03:17 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Thanks all

2.5 turbo- Have changed filters, but not tank screen. Will check alda stuff today. My mityvac is supposed to measure pressure also, the guage shows both. Motor seems to run good, just lacking power. Could the wastegate be stuck open?
__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-27-2007, 03:51 PM
rrgrassi's Avatar
mmmmmm Diesel...
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Royse City Tx
Posts: 5,177
Stuck open wastegate is a possible as well.
__________________
RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-27-2007, 04:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Niagara
Posts: 54
Well if it is none of the above works then try removing the bolt that is in the exhaust manifold at front right of engine...Maybe you have a clogged CAT??? Same thing happened to me and then I had a no start situation. Check this out
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=170274
__________________
1987 300 DT

Last edited by Wolfsburg; 03-27-2007 at 05:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-27-2007, 05:52 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
Almost guaranteed to be one or more of the following:

1) The boost signal may not be reaching the ALDA. Check boost at the ALDA with a "T" fitting using your MityVac set to "pressure". Go for a test drive, look for 10-12psi at full throttle in 2nd or 3rd gear above 4000rpm. Bypass the overboost protection for a quick test, see if that fixes things - the valve often gets gunked up inside, or the plastic tubes can be plugged or cracked.

2) The ALDA may need further adjustment. 1.0-1.5 turns CCW may help significantly. If the car doesn't leave a stop sign quickly, you need to adjust the ALDA.

3) You could have a plugged cat, but I doubt it. I'm assuming the trap oxidizer is removed already.

4) The car may need a couple thousand miles of Italian tuneups. My recently-purchased 1993 300D was kind of a slug when I bought it, despite 14psi of boost and tweaking the ALDA. After a 1000 mile trip with lots of high-rpm, full load driving (and Mobil-1 in the crankcase) the power improved significantly, especially at part throttle and leaving a stop.

5) Have you checked the chain stretch and IP timing yet?

6) If you haven't seen this yet, it's worth reading:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/articles/124.1x3_buying_tips.txt

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID

Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-27-2007, 05:56 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrgrassi View Post
Stuck open wastegate is a possible as well.
To check for a stock open wastegate, test boost at the intake manifold. You will read ZERO boost while driving the car (you can't measure boost in park, in the driveway... has to be under load.) This would be unusual on a 603 engine. The wastegate is pressure operated, and if the hose breaks you'll get overboost, not zero boost. If it's a Garrett, you can connect the MityVac to the wastegate and pressurize it. You'll see the control rod start moving around 12-14psi and it should hold pressure. When you release the pressure, the rod will come back towards the wastegate pod. If you have a KKK turbo, you can't test it with a Mity-Vac.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-27-2007, 07:51 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Did some more fiddling

this afternoon. Ran a line direct from the manifold to the alda, no change. Replaced a couple suspect vacuum hoses in and around the alda, vacuum switch etc. no change. Changed the kick down switch with a known good one from my other 124, no change. The car seems to upshift very quickly and never build significant RPM's. Even with foot to the floor I don't believe it tops 2000-2500 RPM's until 35+ MPH. (tach doesn't work) Idles well and shuts off immediatly. I need to buy some vac. tubing to check the boost, I only have about a foot left. Do I just plug the mityvac into the manifold nipple that normally leads to the alda switch?

Trap ox has been removed. I don't think I could build enough RPM's to do an IT. Revs fine in park but no guts in gear.
__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-27-2007, 08:08 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
Hmmm. Will it rev to 5000rpm in park? Floor the pedal and listen, it should scream away (don't worry, it's governed, just don't hold it up there for more than a couple of seconds.) If it won't rev up freely without load, the exhaust could be plugged. It's rare, but it has happened.

Also check the fitting at the intake manifold where the ALDA pressure signal feeds from... make sure it's clear of oily soot. This fitting often plugs up with gunk from the EGR (which is why many people disable the EGR). You should be able to blow into the little hole. Use a paper clip, wire, or thin drill bit to clean it out. Also make sure the EGR is not stuck open, dumping exhaust back into the intake (not likely.)

The quick upshifting sounds like the Bowden cable is broken or misadjusted. Also, with the engine OFF, have a friend floor the accelerator pedal from inside the car. Make sure the linkage is going all the way to the "stop" on the pump. This is hard to see, you'll need a flashlight to peek through the intake runners at the back side of the pump.

The dead tach is either the OVP relay (which would also trigger the ABS lights) or the tach sensor at the flywheel. Both are pretty common failures. I'd get that fixed pronto. Swap the OVP relay from your other car, if that doesn't fix it, the sensor is suspect. They're about $50 new, or I've got a good used one I'll sell for $20 (long story, lol.)

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-27-2007, 08:21 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Where

is the OVP and how hard is the sensor to replace?

I never floored it in park, however it revs freely to above 3K (by ear). Its buttoned up for tonite so I'll try the 5K rev. and removing the alda tomorrow.

I also cleaned the nipple on the manifold. How do I check for a stuck EGR? The EGR/ARV have NOT been disabled on this car. I need to look up how to do that too. I am on the list for a "test plate" for the EGR.

Smooth idle and no ABS lights.

I'll keep the sensor you have in mind (accept paypal?)

Thanks for the help.
__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-27-2007, 08:34 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
The OVP is next to the battery with a red top, with a GM-style fuse. It's pretty easy to access.

I wouldn't get too excited about yanking the ALDA entirely... some other people recommend this but I think it's better to solve the real problem first.

To check for a stuck EGR, apply vacuum to the EGR so it opens, then yank the hose off. The valve should audibly "thunk" closed. This is a really vague test but it's easier than yanking the manifold apart. A quick disable consists of disconnecting and plugging the hoses at the EGR and ARV valves.

If you confirm the sensor is bad, yep, PayPal is fine. The connector for this sensor is near the OVP. Disconnect it and measure AC voltage with the engine running. The AC voltage should increase as RPM's increase. If no voltage is present, the sensor is bad. Here's a photo:

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-27-2007, 08:45 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
My intent

with the alda was to get it off so I could adjust it. It made a big difference on my other 124.

So tomorrow:

5K RPM rev test

Bowden cable travel check

Check for boost, use nipple on manifold plumbed directly to my mityvac set for pressure. Hopefully will see 10+ lbs. boost.

Remove/adjust alda

Swap OVP relays with other car, check tach

I hope I have enough time tomorrow for all this.

Thanks for the help tonite, I'll let you get to others now
__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-28-2007, 12:02 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
I'm unfamiliar with the vacuum transducers, are they the same as the vacuum pods that control the air vents? How do I test them?
__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-28-2007, 04:40 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
He meant the switchover valve for the overboost protection. You can bypass this and route the intake manifold fitting straight to the ALDA for test purposes. It was mentioned in an earlier post, I think this was already tested.

The 1990-up models have transducers related to the wastegate and other boost-related items, but those don't apply to the 1987 setup.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page