1980 300 CD. Timed the pump--I think I did it right----when trying to start now, it Just hickups, kicks out & can't get it to take hold and run. Is it toooo far advanced??? I can always back it off some to get it to start well again like it did before I screwed with it. (If it ain't broke----)

Can you give us a little more details as to how your doing this??

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1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles

OBK member #23

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Well, of course, I loosened the several bolts and turned the pump body forward toward the engine until the #1 pump outlet pumped the bit of fuel and quit. I turned the pump until the timing mark on the front pully dampener inticated 24 degrees before TDC. I did have the throttle blocked to full open. It's ,essentially, the "drip tube" method without the drip tube--but I didn't think I could be so far off. I guess I'll have to break down and buy a drip tube.

Remove one of the clamps and use a Injector-line as a drip-tube, alternatively go to a breakers, and buy a single line off an old 'scrapper' bend to shape and cut at an angle....

How much did you move the IP,....Did you mark the flanges before you moved the IP, and did you remove the 'delivery-valve' from the IP Injector line union fitting, before you set-up the timing. ??

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Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

Yes, marked the flanges. Moved it about 1/8 inch (3 mm) toward the block. No, didn't remove the valve--dang it---by the way, where is it??. Need to try that again, I guess.

Thanks

You'll need to remove the del.valve to be able to assess when the plunger closes the spill-port in the element. This is the point where the plunger is Just about to start pressurising the fuel for delivery, and the point you're looking for when the pointer is aligned with 24 degrees on the crank-ballancer.

The Del.Valve, is inside the steel part that is screwed into the ally case of the IP, that the injector line is attached to. It usually has some form of 'locking' device, maybe two semi-circular 'chunks' with serrations on which are mounted between two ajacent outlets. Remove this and Carefully unscrew the outlet union out of the IP case. Some locking devices form a ring with an internal 'spline' which is locked to the IP case by a single-screw.

CAUTION....

IF your type of pump has two 13mm nuts either side of the outlet union. DO NOT under ANY circumstances loosen these two or you'll lose the 'Phasing' adjustment and will have to have the pump off and sent to IP shop for re-phasing....

Before ANY work here, Clean the outer case and the outlet-unions well....You dont want ANY crud getting inside the element/del.valve or Inj. Lines...

When you unscrew the outlet union, inside you'll find a spring, and above the spring a tiny steel shim. Take care these arnt lost---
-(Been there, Done That too--Long story, Dropped it down against my new timing-chain where it jammed the bottom crank-sprocket --Magnets are Wonderful things !)

Left inside the IP, you'll see a small round 'plunger' and copper washer. The small central plunger can be carefully lifted out. This is the plunger of the del.valve. Leave this part out, as well as the spring/shim Temp. refit the outlet union with your improvised 'drip-tube' and you're all set for checking/setting.

At Only a 3mm movement of your pump I guess there Could be something else causing the engine Not to start.--These engines are pretty forgiving and will at least start with timing pretty much way-out, but wont run well It would be worth just re-setting to the old position and test-run to make sure all is well, Then check/re-set as above without the del.valve in place

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Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....

Alastair, you have given me more information than I wanted to hear but, if another Britt can do it, so can I. Part of my amazement is that, in other instructions I've read, there had been no mention beyond disconnecting the outlet tube and screwing on the drip tube.

Doggone thing runs like a champion, otherwise. I'll back the IP off to where it was and see if the starting improves. Then, if it does, I'll quit trying to fix stuff that isnt "broke". ( Although it surely tempts one.) Too many wrench heads wanting to twist things get us older "settled" guys in there with our thumbs screwing up a perfectly good machine. Hasn't some doctor come up with a syndrome (and drug) for that yet?? ( And I STILL havn't got the CC system under control)

Thanks--I do appreciate the contribution

There ain't no way that you can properly time an injection pump doing it the way you describe. When reassembling the head to my car, I decided to "eyeball" the ip timing to see if it needed adjustment. I did an exhaustive search here on ip timing and came across a post from a guy that was doing basically what you're doing, but he called it the 'squirt at you' method or something like that. So I proceeded and spun the crank and mine squirted at 40deg or something really long like that. On the advice of a senior member here, I just put it back and kind of ignored my findings, and sure enough, my ip is just fine. That's just a very bad way of checking ip timing. One day I may do the drip method, but I figure now with a new timing chain, the ip should be in good time. Personally I would recommend that if there was suspicion that the ip was out of time, I'd just do a new chain. Of course that is based on the premise that a po didn't adjust the ip to compensate for a stretched chain.

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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.

Thanks, Griesl. I have been wrenching on my rides for over 55 years and one of the things I have yet to learn is to leave well-enough alone. I needed the reminder. I had done what I thought was a good job of timing it a couple of years back and just figured a "tweak" of the thing might be in order. Of course, I neglected to think that they are not like points in a gas car and wouldn't get out of perfect timing just running along unless the chain stretched. I have about 250-300 thou on it (odometer needs some tlc) so the chain may well be in order for replacement. Lots of stuff to do if one can get the time to do it.

I did move the pump a lot. -contributed to a higher-than-usual engine temp as well. Got to keep my fingers out of stuff that is running well!!

I certainly appreciate the advice.

The engine is not that sensitive to IP timing in terms of starting capability. Six degrees either way is not going to make the difference in a start or a no start.

We've even got a member who started one with the timing on the damper out by 360 degrees. Smoked like crazy and had no power, but it did start.

So, since you set timing at 24BTDC on the damper..........are you positive that you're on the compression stroke? Setting on the exhaust stroke might just cause you some starting misery............

She starts with the first pop when I have the block heater on for awhile and runs great. have three new glow plugs too. just doesn't get going without heat like it used to before I changed the pump advance.

I don't think the pump timing is your issue.

Now, that is stump the chump material. When you say, runs great, does it run better than before the most recent ip adjustment? If heat is applied and it starts and runs great, I agree with Brian, it probably is not ip timing causing the problems. Sounds like something has failed surreptitiously. Are you sure gp's are glowing appropriately? If heat is applied and it starts fine, it sure sounds like gp's.

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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.

I agree, either the glow plugs or you created an air leak in the fuel system someplace while working on the IP. I would double check all the fuel lines and connections, and retest the glow plugs.