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#1
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help me
i have an 82 300d. I replaced timing chain,after near break.Apparently the old chain had skipped a link or two,on the pump.It ran fine when parked for repair of the chain.Now it will not run properly,starts,but smokes heavily,no power,wont idle.I drive this car every day and need it fixed!!! ANY HELP IS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
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#2
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Quote:
If I couldn't manage to skip a tooth on the pump after what I did to my engine, I doubt yours skipped down there. I was told by people that rebuild these engines that the way the chain wraps around those gears, it's near impossible to skip a tooth on the crank or the ip. So, if you skipped a tooth, it's probably on the cam. You need to start with lining up the crank on TDC and the cam on the cam timing mark. They've got to be aligned first. If you are certain they are aligned and that you're on the compression stroke (you can tell by the first cam lobe pointing 90deg toward the driver's side of the car), then you may have to remove the ip and reset it. But that's the worst case scenario. Check cam and crank timing first.
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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in. |
#3
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thanks
The pump skipped for sure,because we made the mistake of removing the locking nut on the housing,before installing the new chain, allowing the chain to skip. I actually heard it!,I have lined up the gear on the cam, and lined up tdc on the balancer,then attempted the drip test{actually bought the tool]. Lined everythin up at 24 btdc,still no luck. i cant seem to get the pump right.
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#4
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When I reassembled my engine I lined up the marks on the cam and the crank, then turned the engine to 24 BTDC and aligned the IP spline and reinstalled it then timed it .
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car" |
#5
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Quote:
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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in. |
#6
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When you installed and timed the pump where the two cam lobes on the first cylinder pointing upwards? Did you notice? If not you may have your pump timed to the wrong part of the cycle.
The bottom pulley goes around twice compared to one turn for the cam and injection pump. I suspect this is where your problem lays. Those cam lobes on the first cylinder have to be pointing upwads at about a 45 degree angle each way. Or to put it another way the tops of both of the lobes must be at almost equal height. Could be something else I guess but this is the first thing I would check by your description of what has transpired. After carefully re reading your post I might be wrong but still I would inspect it carefully. Your overall description still sounds like the pump might be in wrong. What I am thinking is when turning the engine over to get 24 degrees you may have gone around once on the bottom pulley. This would be because you just were not aware and it could happen to a lot of people. Only if you are absolutly positive those lobes were in the correct position when installing the pump forget about it. One more last thought. did you glance over to see if the mark on the cam was just a little off when you rotated the bottom pulley to 24 degrees and not basically pointing in a general downward direction? I am not trying to confuse you but just trying to supply enough detail for you to think about it. Last edited by barry123400; 04-14-2007 at 05:00 PM. |
#7
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Barry makes a good point. At one point I thought for sure I had skipped a tooth, especially since something in there near the ip gear pulls on the chain every so often--scare the pee out of me. So let's back up a little. If you could confirm that it's just a timing issue between cam and crank, you could save yourself alot of trouble. When I was way out of wack and confused beyond belief of how to get my 300d running again, I started with the crank, then the cam. I did at one point have everything off by 360, which Barry describes and then by four teeth--72deg, which ironically is one/fifth of 360. Long story of how I got there. But here's what I did to fix it. I removed #1 line off the pump and the spring stuff in there on that line so I could see when fuel wells up in there. With the chain on, I rotated engine til the pump welled up and then stopped at the next TDC. Then I looked at the cam. This is the compression stroke, the beginning of the 720 degree cycle (cam turns one revolution to the crank's two revolutions). To be sure you're on the compression stroke the first cam lobe has to be pointing to the driver's side at 90deg. Then lined up the cam timing marks and everything was fine. So if you've not already removed the ip, then it's worth a shot to confirm that the cam and crank are in sync on the compression stroke when the ip is ready to spit some fuel in #1.
Oh, adding the edit: When lining up cam timing mark, you've got to be sure the chain is under tension. The tensioner doesn't have to be installed necessarily, but you've got to apply some pressure on that side of the chain to get an accurate reading. One other thing. When rotating the engine by hand with the tensioner out, oil will squirt out of that little hole with pretty impressive volume.
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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in. Last edited by GRIESL; 04-14-2007 at 08:01 PM. Reason: forgot to add... |
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Thank you all for the responses. My wife and I have spent the day mulling over the Mercedes tech. books and the Chiltons special book and the question real is how do you know if the crank is at TDC or BDC, and at what point does the intake valve of the first cylinder really open? We think the intake valve is opening at 12 degrees after BDC instead of 12 degrees after TDC but are still not sure what to do to fix it. According to both of the books, everything is set where it is supposed to be, the crank is set on 0 and the marks on the cam line up with the collar, with the first cam lobe pointed toward the drivers side (just like the books show), but the book also says that the intake valve for #1 should open at 12 degrees after TDC, but we have to turn the crank 1 revolution (which would make it BDC...right?) to make the intake valve open. Now I have a headache and need asprin!! I have to have this car fixed tomorrow because I have to drive it to work on Monday...I will do whatever is necessary to get him going. ALSO when i drip test....will the 1 droplet per second keep on running, or just for a short amount of time.
Last edited by jasonj; 04-14-2007 at 10:00 PM. Reason: typo |
#9
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Take out the glowplug and put your finger over the GP hole as you turn the engine. If it's going to TDC, you will feel air pushing your finger.
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#10
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Jasonj, You might still benifit if you try to visulise two top dead centres because that is what you have. One top dead centre with the valve lobes more or less upward. This is the power stroke where the injection pump should inject fuel on your number one cylinder. The valves are closed.
The other crank stroke is also a top dead centre but the cylinder has just finishing letting the exhast gasses out and is getting ready to let air in. The lobes will be in a more downward or active state. As a poster mentioned to verify the cam timing the chain cannot be relaxed or sloppy on the distance between the cam gear and the crank gear. Any present looseness on the other or injection pump to crankshaft side is okay. I also liked the suggestion of one posters method to use the welling up or point of drip test to put the pump approxamatly where it should be before you pull it again and reinstall it after correction of the other problem. Try to relax as your wife will help give you guidance. I know mine would under the circumstances as you describe them. There is nothing really broken here only not assembled properly. It will work out. An easier description is You are trying to inject your fuel on the correct top dead centre with no slop in one side of the chain when setting the cam to crank marks initially. Ask for any additional clarifications as you have a couple of members posting that have been where you are. Sometimes I do not explain or project my thoughts very well. Last edited by barry123400; 04-14-2007 at 10:21 PM. |
#11
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Quote:
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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in. |
#12
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eureka!!! removed pump,replaced in proper slot,runs like a champ!!! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!!!
now i have a new oil leak at the oil pot [needs new gasket] jason&gwen |
#13
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Way to go dude, and thanks for updating us. Sorry for the oil leak, but minor relatively.
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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in. |
#14
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You friggin guys crack me up. You amaze me sometimes, with your mechanical knowledge, and suggestions. I just find it so amusing that I, even with my mechanical abilities, can be staring directly at a problem, and sometimes, not have the solution. Here you guys are, 3000 miles away or more from Jason, and you suggested all the correct actions, and almost literally Cyber-Fixed, his car....That's awesome, and amazing, I like being a part of this whole thing.
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#15
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Did you have to remove the oil filter housing to get the IP off?
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Jimmy L. '05 Acura TL 6MT 2001 ML430 My Spare Gone: '95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black '85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White '80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed '81 300TD 240K "Smash" '80 240D 230K "The Squash" '81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John |
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