Tinkering around in a 28 yr old engine bay = broken items - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gtmotor · #1 04-17-2007, 10:09 PM

So I was messing around in the engine bay trying to figure out why my SD feels so weird when I found this:

Broken wastegate line... hmm that may explain why it felt so peppy.

So as I removed parts of the intake to get better access to the line stuff kept breaking off in my hands. *pull* ... *break*... *gently pull* ... *crack* ... *barely pull* ... *snap*

!@#!@%!!! So I said f-it and just ditched the entire intake system.

Obviously wasn't going to run it like this... and since half of the plastic pieces were broken I decided to go back to my performance roots and dig around for a cone filter.

This is what I came up with:

I decided to drive it even though it's not finished (need to plumb in another vacuum source for the EGR) and it drove great!

No more rattles and AWESOME amounts of turbo whine

Comments?

JimmyL · #2 04-17-2007, 10:16 PM

Your filtration is now sub-par. I hope the turbo whine you are so pleased with is worth it.......

waybomb · #3 04-17-2007, 10:27 PM

Nothing like taking an engine good for a few hundred thousand as engineered, then screwing it all up with a "filter" that does little to filter out the finest particles - the ones that do the real damage. You're good for maybe 50,000 miles and by then you'll be burning a lot of oil.

What do plan to do with breather oil? Just let it pour all over the turbo and exhaust manifold?

gtmotor · #4 04-17-2007, 10:40 PM

haha you guys are sure different then other car guys I know.

Glad you seem to know it all

Guess I should quit my day job then

JimmyL · #5 04-17-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtmotor

haha you guys are sure different then other car guys I know.

Glad you seem to know it all

Guess I should quit my day job then

Yea, we're not smart enough to just replace the cracked rubber hose. We also foolishly stick with the proven intake system.
Boy, I guess we're no engineers.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtmotor

Comments?

And you ask for comments, then when I guess we don't tell you how clever you are you come up with the "gold" in your above quote.

It was a very clever and impressive fix. MB engineers are scrambling to beat you to the patent office in the morning. We will await our next high mileage badge with your picture on it........

benzforlife · #6 04-17-2007, 11:22 PM

just keep the filter well oiled, and put a breather hose filter on the tube.

tobybul · #7 04-18-2007, 07:31 AM

Parts are available and cheap... put it back to original I say...

dannym · #8 04-18-2007, 07:42 AM

What everyone is trying to say is the K&N filters don't perform well. You can do a search and find this out easily. The stock filters are more than adequate and do the job properly.
Look good....Yes. Perform good.....NO.

My comment:
Ditch EGR altogether, you don't need it.

You really went around the block on this one. Most people would have cut a 1/2 inch off that hose and stuck it back on.

Danny

mespe · #9 04-18-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybomb

Nothing like taking an engine good for a few hundred thousand as engineered, then screwing it all up with a "filter" that does little to filter out the finest particles - the ones that do the real damage. You're good for maybe 50,000 miles and by then you'll be burning a lot of oil.

I don't really know, but 50,000 miles seems a little low, my guess would be closer to 100,000 miles,,, unless of course another hose breaks. On the other hand,,, if it does last another 100,000 miles, or even 50,000 miles, and by that time the car is 30-35 years old,,, I don't see any harm in the substandard, inferiorly modified intake. But resale value just dropped a few hundred bucks.

bgkast · #10 04-18-2007, 03:33 PM

Your car should have been running extra slowly if it was over-boosting and the switchover valve was operating correctly.

Your setup looks like my filter setup. I have an intercooler and custom throttle linkage in the way of the stock filter location. The cotton filter will work fine if you keep it well oiled, something you can't do with modern cars with MAFs. People always say that they do not filter as well as stock whenever a topic about them is started, but I still have not seen any data to back up the claim.

I used an oil separator off of a light aircraft for my blow-by gasses.

Where is your wastegate line running to? It looks like it runs off under the radiator hose.

waybomb · #11 04-18-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

People always say that they do not filter as well as stock whenever a topic about them is started, but I still have not seen any data to back up the claim.

What data do you need? The K&N filters have less sq in of filter media, yet they claim to flow more air. Right? That's why you buy a K&N - to flow more air? So, if it flows more air, how does it do so with less square inches of media?

The holes are bigger! Bigger holes means more dirt. Fine dirt at that.

You can hear the turbo whine! Why? You've opened the door, figuratively speaking. The open door is letting the dirt in.

Hope you don't live near the beach or the desert.

Good luck.

dannym · #12 04-19-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

...... but I still have not seen any data to back up the claim........

I've seen data for and against K&N filters. I use it on my motorcycle but not on my Benz. I don't think there's enough of a performance gain to justify using it. Except for the cleaning and reuse part.
I just came across this in a quick search:

EDIT: Looking at the highlighted part at the bottom I'm now wondering what kind of effect engine oil has on these filters? I know my filter gets a lot of oil on it. Just wondering..

Quote:

Taken from the VetteNetters Forum:

Back in Dec & Nov there was quite a bit of discussion of the K&N Filter. At the center of the controversy were questions about the K&N's filtering ability (i.e. though its performance enhancing features aren't in doubt, people wondered how good a filter it is?) The discussion even got a bit heated with someone on the anti-K&N side coming out and saying the K&N pretty much sucks as a filter and isn't good for your engine.

The only post I saw, pro or con, that backed up its statements with test data was one citing a 1992 British Motor Industry Research Association dust filtration efficiency test of the K&N air filter. While this test has been discussed previously, there are some things in it that need review.

The test procedure was done according to ISO standard 5011, an international standard for air filters of the type used on heavy-duty and commercial vehicles, using a K&N oil-impregnated, gauze media commercial type filter measuring 16.14" long, 10.43" diameter, with an air flow of 550 cfm. The test "dust" used was "coarse grade" as specified by ACDelco standards for testing their filters. Coarse grade dust is made up of the following percentages of varying diameters of dust particles.

0-5 microns - 12%
5-10 microns - 12%
10-20 microns - 14%
20-40 microns - 23%
40-80 microns - 30%
80-200 microns - 9%

The starting pressure differential across the filter was 26.45" of water and the test ran until it reached saturation (31.49" of water) and then the amount of dust trapped by the filter (5.1307 lbs.) was compared to the total amount of dust introduced during the test (5.1680 lbs.) It took 102 mins for the filter to reach saturation and the filtration efficiency was 99.28%.

So, how do I qualify this test to put it in the proper perspective for the street high performance engine in a Vette?

* First, K&N commmercial filters typically use four-layers while units sold for use in passenger cars typically only use three. K&N has indicated the efficiency of their three-layer filters is 97% and independent testing backs up that claim.
* Next, the K&N commercial filter tested had more filter area that the typical air filter we'd see in a high-performance V8 application, such as a 3"x14" unit. However, since the efficiency of the filter media is about the same, the only "real" difference would be the time needed for it to reach saturation. It'd be less because, for a given amount of dust at a given flow rate, the smaller filter would plug up faster.
* Lastly, virtually no Vette run in street high-performance duty is going to see any coarse grade dust in any significant amount; unless it's regularly used on a farm or construction site.

Another test of K&N filters was conducted by the British MIRA in 1983 but this time according to the SAE J726 standard which is a bit more familiar in the US. This test was done using "AC fine grade" dust which is more typical of what a street engine would encounter under normal driving conditions.

0-5 microns - 39%
5-10 microns - 18%
10-20 microns - 16%
20-40 microns - 18%
40-80 microns - 9%

This test used a K&N three-layer motorcycle type filter with an airflow of 40 cfm. The initial pressure differential was .825" of water and saturation was reached at 6.85" of water. They introduced 15.6 grams of dust and the filter trapped 15.1 grams for an efficiency of 96.8% - very close to the 97% K&N claims for its street high-performance automotive filters.

Now, while a motorcycle filter is obviously "much" smaller than what a V8 would use, the efficiency should still be about the same and the bigger V8 filter should take longer to reach saturation.

In yet a 3rd MIRA test, using filters typical for V6 engines in high-performance sports coupes, two K&N oval filters (2.56"x7.48"x6.18" & 3.22"x7.05"x4.5") were tested. This test was run according to ISO 5011 using AC fine grade dust and the filter efficiency levels were 97.5% and 97.6% respectively.

All these tests showed efficiency levels well above the 95% most OEs claim and, in my opinion, convincingly show K&N, oil-impregnated, gauze air filters are not only capable of high filtration levels but also low airflow restricion. Many off-road racers must agree with me because a lot of them use K&N filters and, if they work in that kind of enviornment, they must be one heck of a good filter.

Also, Chrysler markets factory-approved performance kits for some of its US truck engines that includes a K&N filter and are covered under their factory warranty. You can bet they wouldn't warranty such a kit if the K&N filter didn't meet or exceed their OE filter efficiency standards!

In Japan, Nissan also markets similar factory-approved performance kits for a couple of their Japanese domestic models and, like the Chrysler kits, they include K&N filters.

Finally, one way a K&N filter can fail is if it's used - contrary to the manufacturer's instructions - without being oiled or with the "wrong" oil. If you use a K&N filter, you should clean it annually and reoil it every six months. If you operate your Vette in a dusty environment (the coarse dust) clean and reoil it more frequently. When you reoil, "only" use K&N's filter oil. Foam filter oil, engine oil, WD40 or ATF are "not" the proper oils and "will" significatnly degrade the filter's efficiency.

Danny

gtmotor · #13 04-19-2007, 02:49 PM

You guys are too much! This forum is great (not being saracastic).

Wait till you see my next mod...

This thread is spurring me to do it

P.S. I have personally logged over 100,000 miles using K&N style filters on the road and on the racetrack. Sure they don't filter as well as a stock paper filter but it's part of the trade off you get for performance.

P.P.S. This is a pocket change car that was about to be turned into a metal cube at the crusher. I'm just having some fun with it.

ozawa · #14 04-19-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

I'm just having some fun with it.

...and that's the point of having cars as a hobby.

sLoweredK300e · #15 04-19-2007, 03:57 PM

gezz these MB guys like German nuts