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#1
05-07-2007, 10:24 PM
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The Origin and History of Diesel at Mercedes-Benz?
Someone on this board must know the history of MB diesels.
Did M-B build diesel engines for German submarines before WWI? Did M-B build diesels for the German Navy during and before either 'WW' war. What boats/ships were powered by M-B designed or built motors? What other military vehicles used by the German Army did M-B build diesels/powertrains for? The pre-cursor of the Gelandewagen (Unimog)? What else?  Why do I ask? Two reasons. First, I've wondered where Chester Nimitz studied when he visited Germany to study diesels. The U.S. Navy eventually built the first diesel powered ship and submarine seen in the U.S. based on Nimitz recommendations and real world knowledge learned in Germany. Second, I want to read some confirmation of an opinion that the motor noise one hears at 75-80mph bring is not unlike what one would hear if one were crew on 'Das Boat'. Is it just me or are OM617 motors the grandchildren of marine diesels?
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MJMoon '83 300SD 460,000 miles (+ 3 years w/odo not working) Last edited by Diesel2theMoon; 05-07-2007 at 11:11 PM. 
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#2
05-07-2007, 10:32 PM
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they have been making diesels for a long long time. If I wasnt tired Id pull out my big book of Mercedes -Benz history. But I can tell you that they have had the diesel in operation since at least the early 1900's...
the first passenger diesel vehicle wasn't until IIRC the 170DV or something like that.. my brain is farting out
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#3
05-07-2007, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
The design of the 615/616/617 is probably heavily influenced by what was present on the Sub/Marine engines. Think about it, MB started producing this series of engines less than 7-8 years after the war ended, and it took them at least a few years to even build their facilities back up for making civilian cars/trucks, so only a few year gap. Very likely they are related. 
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-  '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)
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#4
05-08-2007, 06:11 AM
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U-Boat in Bremerhaven.....
I've been thru the Deutches Schiffarts Museum in Bremerhaven...and have been thru the U-Boat there....U-2540.....it had MAN engines...and AEG electric motors.....
Link to U-Boat http://www.dsm.de/e3ubor.htm Link to Museum http://www.dsm.de/edsm.htm I have been an engineer aboard several different German built ships and have never seen anything like a Mercedes-Benz engine aboard..... The German maritime tends to go with.... MAN....Machinefabrik Augsburg Nurnburg B&W...Bermeister & Wain MAK...Machinewerk Au Krupp Lister Deutz (KHD)...Klockner Humboldt Deutz Caterpillar (Zepplin).....yes Virginia there are metric Cats!!! Sulzer ....Swiss...almost German tho.... to name a few.....but no MB SB
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 Diesels: '85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG '84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG '77 240D (parts car) '67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP) Gassers: '94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG '85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car '58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG Last edited by Shorebilly; 05-08-2007 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Correction and addition of links
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#5
05-08-2007, 06:24 AM
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I don't have the books at my fingertips, but IIRC, the first diesel powered car was a Peugeot; The first diesel powered production car was a Mercedes. Both cars were first made in the mid 1930s.
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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags 
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#6
05-08-2007, 06:47 AM
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Quick note....
I have to head to school for finals in a few minutes.....but this question got me to wondering......
I looked up Mercedes in 'Diesel Motorships, Engines and Machinery" by Christial Knack......no Mercedes....BUT...they do list a Maybach Type MD 655, V12, 4 Stroke, 950kW/1274hp @ 1500rpm....I don't know what the exact connection that exists between MB and Maybach is......but the Maybach is in there.....it is specifically notable because of it's "tunnel' style of construction....this allows the crankshaft to be axially shifted in and out of the crankcase....main bearings are also roller bearings.... I think, perhaps, that if MB did make Marine Diesels for the Kreigsmarine, they most probably would have gone into Schnell Boats (PT Boat, sorta)..... Will look at other references later when I get home..... SB and yes, I am embarking on a second degree....this time Surveying/Forestry......
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Diesels: '85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG '84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG '77 240D (parts car) '67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP) Gassers: '94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG '85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car '58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG Last edited by Shorebilly; 05-08-2007 at 02:27 PM. Reason: Add horsepower
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#7
05-08-2007, 12:16 PM
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This is quite an interesting thread. From my limited knowledge I'd say offhand that Mercedes did not in fact build diesels for the Kriegsmarine. Uboote etc used MAN as already mentioned. Not sure about Schnellboote but I suspect the same. In terms of military engines I think Daimler Benz only built Aero engines. The DB600 series that powered various Messerschmitt fighters etc.
They were the primary designer and producer of both the Panzer Mk111 and the Sturmgeschutz assault guns based on the Mk111 but both of these used Maybach engines. - Peter.
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2021 Chevrolet Spark Formerly... 2000 GMC Sonoma 1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021  2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels 1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles. 1984 123 200 1979 116 280S 1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille 1971 108 280S
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#8
05-08-2007, 02:32 PM
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Daimler marine engines
Before the Daimler Company (the Mercedes bit) and the Benz Company came together in the late 20's financial crisis in Germany, Daimler made a wide range of stationary diesels that powered everything from pleasure yachts through to much bigger ships.
I do not know the role of Mercedes Benz diesels later but I have to assume that they powered quite a few different marine vessels.
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#9
05-08-2007, 02:35 PM
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Maybach and Mercedes Benz
To answer a question above, Maybach was the chief designer of engines and autos under the founders when the merged Mercedes Benz was created. When the founders were replaced with one of the sons (can't remember who) Maybach has pushed out and he started his own company........
Usual story of arrogant know-it-all son who thought he knew more than the chief designer!
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#10
05-08-2007, 05:06 PM
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Where maybach diesel engines used in the zepplins? Who built the diesel engine used in some german bombers in the second world war?
Overall I found them reasonably compact for a 600 horsepower rating. Somewhat unorthodox in design with two cranks. It was not a very successful engine in operation apparently yet was very reliable. It apparently changed operating speeds at too slow a rate. Pretty large blower on the back of the engine on the one I examined.
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#11
05-08-2007, 05:30 PM
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Really neat picture of a WWII era Mercedes Benz diesel truck and a dog.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=186998&highlight=diesel+dog Daimler Benz built diesel engines for the Panzer tanks in the Second World war, in addition to truck engines. see the forum in www.axishistory.com and also take a look in www.achtungpanzer.com for more information and photographs
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 1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ... 1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold) 2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp 1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k 2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive  (sold)
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