Two years of B100 in my 240D - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mbehensky · #1 07-09-2007, 12:28 PM

I was going to post this to the thread about B20 from the guy in New Hampshire, but after I wrote it I decided it deserved its own topic...

I've been running B100 or B99 for the past 2 years in my 1982 240D. I buy it whenever I can get it, but sometimes have to put in a tank of regular diesel when I run out away from my home in Santa Cruz. In that time I've put about 30k miles on the car (now 174k). Here are my impressions:

1. The engine runs much quieter on biodiesel than dinodiesel. When I put in regular diesel I have to remind myself to not worry about the extra noise from the engine.

2. I get significantly worse mileage on B100 than regular diesel. I estimate around 27mpg versus 30 on regular diesel.

3. Power is reduced noticably on B100 (pretty obvious since the 240D doesn't have any to spare). There is a hill near my house I can pull in 3rd gear with dino, but not with bio.

4. I don't know if my fuel lines have been replaced, but so far I have had no problems on the 240D (my 92 300D had some leakage before its transmission blew up).

5. A blend of 50-50 bio to dino seems to have great power, smoothness, and mileage.

6. The price on B100 has been around the same to slightly higher than regular diesel. During oil price shocks it costs less.

Given that it works slightly worse and is slightly more expensive, why do I use it? Most importantly, it reduces global warming more than any other fuel choice you can make. All the carbon in biodiesel was extracted from the atmosphere by plants recently (not 100 million years ago). By some estimates it takes 1 unit of energy from petroleum to produce 3.2 units of energy from biodiesel (although some of that petroleum could be replaced by biodiesel itself in tractors, etc.). If you accept these numbers, a Hummer H1 running on biodiesel and getting 15 miles per gallon puts about the same amount of net carbon into the atmosphere as a Prius getting 50mpg. A Mercedes 240D getting 27mpg does about twice as well as a Prius. Given that most electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, biodiesel is a better choice even than an electric car. Yes, there are particulates and nitrogen oxides, but these are gone from the atmosphere in a few weeks. Carbon persists for thousands of years.

Second, every time I swipe my card into a regular gas pump, I see the funds being transferred into the bank account of some rich sheik in Saudi Arabia who has made a devil's bargain with fundamentalist Islam to keep himself in power. This is in a country where my wife can't even legally drive a car. Would I rather have that money go to American farmers? Yup..

Third (this is related to the second point), we're not fighting wars over soybeans.

Max Behensky
82 240D
87 300TD (needs a new head)
92 300D 2.5 Turbo (needs a new transmission)

vstech · #2 07-09-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbehensky

Second, every time I swipe my card into a regular gas pump, I see the funds being transferred into the bank account of some rich sheik in Saudi Arabia who has made a devil's bargain with fundamentalist Islam to keep himself in power. This is in a country where my wife can't even legally drive a car. Would I rather have that money go to American farmers? Yup..

Third (this is related to the second point), we're not fighting wars over soybeans.

has anybody seen the trailers/commercials for the new series "CANE"
I believe it's about a sugar cane farmer family that is now in demand due to biodiesel/E85 and "Mob" style tactics from the various encroachers... I only saw a snippet of the trailer, so I don't know too much about it, but what I saw looked good!
http://www.tv.com/cane/show/68673/summary.html
"sugar from cuba is set to be the worlds fuel"

WINGAS · #3 07-09-2007, 02:16 PM

Third point is where I hang my hat, intially it was. None of my buds bought the farm in the ME due to canola farms or hemp growers.

Come to find out, that lil' Blackie really digs the bio, even with as little as 20% in the tank. Now I wish I could buy it here, but home brew is all you'll find, oddly in one of the best agricultural climates for soy and canola.

BTW, AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT!!!!!!

From an ethical/political point of view, why SHOULD the Government tax bio? They are NOT spending 100 BILLION dollars in a foreign escapade to secure the canola farms in the ME are they!? If you think about how much petroleum REALLY costs us, not just the spot price, but all the side payments in miltary budgets, terrorst threats, NOT TO MENTION OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN DYING OVER IT.... it makes no sense to tax bio.

Hell man, from a cost point of view, they should PAY US to make it like they do the ethanol producers, since it has no serious consequences except for a ton of free soap and lipstick.

Sometimes the world seems completely , logically upside down.

Hope I can start making my own soon, And hope the tax man shows up. I'm going to make a PR fiasco out of it. Make the muthas think for once. Out of the box, that is. The way we NEED to think to survive/thrive.

vstech · #4 07-09-2007, 02:27 PM

[QUOTE=WINGAS;1558854it makes no sense to tax bio.

Hell man, from a cost point of view, they should PAY US to make it like they do the ethanol producers, since it has no serious consequences except for a ton of free soap and lipstick.[/QUOTE]

have you seen "fight club"? "soap" has quite a few interesting by products. nytro glycerin for one... boom?...
and most fuel taxes are for road maintenance, not government sorties... in theory...

JWJ · #5 07-09-2007, 02:46 PM

Would you buy biodiesel if it came from OPEC?

spark3542 · #6 07-09-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWJ

Would you buy biodiesel if it came from OPEC?

Even if Big Oil tried to corner the market and buy up all BD producers, there would be a cottage industry to compete, because the barriers to entry are minimal. We, as individuals or small communities, do not have the ability to extract oil from the ground, but we do have the ability to plant crops.

Making BD is much, much cheaper than extracting and refining petroleum.

dukegrad98 · #7 07-09-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WINGAS

Hope I can start making my own soon, And hope the tax man shows up. I'm going to make a PR fiasco out of it. Make the muthas think for once.

Oh, man, I can't wait to see this. It's gonna end badly for you. Give me a call when it does and I'll see what I can bargain out with the tax folks on your behalf.

Cheers, John

#8 07-09-2007, 06:32 PM

Even though I work in the oil industry I'd much rather see my $$ going [indirectly] to a rapeseed co-op in Canada than the Middle East!

The potential negative impact on food prices, clean water supplies and dependence on hydrocarbon-derived (typically natural gas) herbicides/pesticides/fertilizers needs to be addressed though. These concerns are probably more relevant to ethanol though which in my mind is a total disaster.

Unfortunately though, BD gets lumped in with ethanol any time the media talks about "Biofuel", and the two are _very_ different...

My 240 and TDI both love B100 and so far no problems...

JWJ · #9 07-09-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spark3542

Making BD is much, much cheaper than extracting and refining petroleum.

Then why is commercial B100 always in the same price area as traditional diesel. It should be much, much cheaper.

This would make all the biodiesel producers (including co-ops) more greedy than OPEC.

Palangi · #10 07-09-2007, 10:32 PM

This thread is more politics than diesel related. Seems to me like it belongs in OD.

At least that's what I get told if I mention politics on Diesel Discussion.

NC Benz · #11 07-09-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWJ

Then why is commercial B100 always in the same price area as traditional diesel. It should be much, much cheaper.

This would make all the biodiesel producers (including co-ops) more greedy than OPEC.

DOH! Waiting for a politically correct answer on THIS one!

One big Biodiesel producer around here sells it for $3.50 A GALLON!

AND you need to be a "member" of their commune... I mean CO-OP. But I guess it is supposed to be for mother earth

.

Then there is another guy that sells it (B100) for $2.00 a gallon. My money is on the $2.00 a gallon guy!

Now where can I sell my carbon credits???

pawoSD · #12 07-09-2007, 11:33 PM

They want about $3.40 a gallon around here for B100 too....and you have to buy it like 50 or 100 gallons at a time by order. I ran B20....it smelled weird....had less power....and 4 less mpg. No thanks. The only benefit was how smooth the engine ran/idled. I'll give that up for the extra power and mileage....

NC Benz · #13 07-09-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

They want about $3.40 a gallon around here for B100 too....and you have to buy it like 50 or 100 gallons at a time by order. I ran B20....it smelled weird....had less power....and 4 less mpg. No thanks. The only benefit was how smooth the engine ran/idled. I'll give that up for the extra power and mileage....

I bought some B20 at a normal fuel station. Same price as normal diesel and ran just fine for me.

Dana B. · #14 07-09-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWJ

Then why is commercial B100 always in the same price area as traditional diesel. It should be much, much cheaper.

This would make all the biodiesel producers (including co-ops) more greedy than OPEC.

I've been saying this for years - that Bio-D producers ALWAYS charge more for veggie fuel than diesel. You get fewer mpg and less pop for the buck -- and always get gouged for it. Bio-D is a cult. And its makers aren't our friends.

Island300D · #15 07-10-2007, 12:30 AM

Have to chime in here and agree with the first poster about his reasons for going biodiesel. We're kindred on this topic. Nothing is without consequence, but I have been so angry about bigoil/Iraq/BushCheney/ANWR/GlobalWarming and all the related rest for so long that anything whatsoever I can do to diminish my involvement with it I must do. I can't ignore my pocket book's role in the world. Neither can I allow myself to be as determined to subvert this whole destructive paradigm as I am and not do something! My sailboat 4 cylinder diesel has been B99 for many tankfuls and runs beautifully, and smells great. My newly purchased 300D (which we bought expressly to go biodiesel) is now on its first tank of B99. Lucky I can get B99 right from the pump here on our little island. Have already changed all fuel lines and filters and will change filters again in a tank or two.

I too notice the engines run much smoother on bio over dino. Cetane I guess.

Not at all concerned about power difference. I live on an island with a 45 mph speed limit! If less power is the price I have to pay to not give more money to _________ then that's great. I have no problem with taxes, only with my money being wasted on wars that will only bring us more wars and suffering and make the military industrial complex richer and richer. Checked your stocks recently? People are making heaps of money off this war, and it's not the families of the guys and gals getting killed and maimed.

Sorry, got on a rant...