Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-31-2007, 10:59 PM
PanzerSD's Avatar
Schießenstern
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 2,351
Exclamation Sticky Wastegate?

Lately, in the last week or so, I've been noticing heavy black smoke and a general lack of boost.
While driving casually, nothing registers on my gauge. good gauge, good line.
When I accelerate moderately, it peaks at 5PSI.
Let the car cool overnight, and I have normal boost and no black smoke.
Drive up a fairly steep hill, tranny kicks down, and the onece normal boost reading of 15PSI at that RPM continues to build till about 20PSI then drops off to normal levels rather abrubtly. Once I get my RPM back down in 4th gear, the next moderate accelleration is heavy smoke and no boost.

Sticky wastegate. because the lack of boost also varies. one instance it'll peak at 5 others it'll peak at around 8 or 10. It's almost as though the valve stem is hanging up in it's bore or something.

how does one go about unsticking a stick wastegate? take apart and clean?

__________________
RIP: 80 300SD
RIP: 79 450SEL
2002 E430 4matic (212,000km)
2002 ML500 'sport'

____________________________
FACEBOOK:
PANZER450
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-31-2007, 11:42 PM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 15,438
15-20psi is going to kill the engine, I'd look into the turbo and electronic overboost solenoid to make sure everything is ok. 20psi is rod-bending territory.
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-01-2007, 12:23 AM
PanzerSD's Avatar
Schießenstern
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 2,351
Well, these high pressures aren't for any more than a half a second on HARD, infrequent and rare acceleration

I have no functioning OB protection. other than the wastegate itself...and no ALDA..

I just want to know if anytthing can be done to the wastegate to make it operate smoother than it is now.
__________________
RIP: 80 300SD
RIP: 79 450SEL
2002 E430 4matic (212,000km)
2002 ML500 'sport'

____________________________
FACEBOOK:
PANZER450
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-01-2007, 03:12 AM
PanzerSD's Avatar
Schießenstern
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 2,351
Yeah, it's a sticky WG valve, I can watch my boost gauge build up to the point that the WG should open, it passes to like 15 PSI then instead of leveling off at around 10 it drops to zero as though I'd taken my foot off the throttle, without actually doing so.
__________________
RIP: 80 300SD
RIP: 79 450SEL
2002 E430 4matic (212,000km)
2002 ML500 'sport'

____________________________
FACEBOOK:
PANZER450
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-01-2007, 03:16 AM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Check your wastegate hose. Sounds like you have a leak.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-01-2007, 09:36 AM
PanzerSD's Avatar
Schießenstern
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 2,351
Replaced that yesterday.
__________________
RIP: 80 300SD
RIP: 79 450SEL
2002 E430 4matic (212,000km)
2002 ML500 'sport'

____________________________
FACEBOOK:
PANZER450
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-01-2007, 11:17 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 703
Anyone care to explain to this newb how the turbo/wastegate/overboost function together.
__________________
1987 300SDL 167k
1992 Volvo 740 140k
1990 Volvo 740 250k
1989 Volvo 240 269k

Anyone want to trade an old Volvo for an '87 300sdl?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-01-2007, 11:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 703
Anyone care to explain to this newb how the turbo/wastegate/overboost function together.

BTW, the newb I'm referring to is me.
__________________
1987 300SDL 167k
1992 Volvo 740 140k
1990 Volvo 740 250k
1989 Volvo 240 269k

Anyone want to trade an old Volvo for an '87 300sdl?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-01-2007, 08:57 PM
bgkast's Avatar
Rollin' on 16s
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 6,528
Turbo creats boost pressure which begins opening the wastegate at a set pressure. Wastegate allows some exhaust to bypass turbine and exit the tailpipe with out spooling the turbo...equilibrium is reached. If something interferes with the wastegate's opperation and the boost gets too high (over 15 psi or so) the overboost sensor cuts off the turbo's pressure signal to the injection pump, which then limits fuel (and power).
__________________
1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-01-2007, 09:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 703
Excellent, thank you for the help.

Does this mean that the overboost is just for protection and is not used the vast majority of the time?

Also, how does the turbo send the signal to the IP, is that vacuum, electric, or other?

And... is the wastegate setpoint determined by a spring?
__________________
1987 300SDL 167k
1992 Volvo 740 140k
1990 Volvo 740 250k
1989 Volvo 240 269k

Anyone want to trade an old Volvo for an '87 300sdl?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-02-2007, 12:15 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by New2MB View Post
Excellent, thank you for the help.

Does this mean that the overboost is just for protection and is not used the vast majority of the time?

Also, how does the turbo send the signal to the IP, is that vacuum, electric, or other?

And... is the wastegate setpoint determined by a spring?
Correct, the overboost is strictly for protection if the wastegate were to stick closed. In reality, I'd venture to say that most of the systems won't work properly due to the sensor on the manifold getting plugged with carbon over time. I recently tested the SD without a wastegate hose. The circuit never worked.

The "banjo fitting" which you've probably heard of, is attached to the back of the intake manifold. It sends a pressure signal to the "ALDA" which allows the IP to advance the rack and provide more fuel to the cylinders.

The wastegate setpoint is a crude spring affair that is not calibrated very accurately on most vehicles. Some are set to 6-7 psi and some are close to the specification of 12-13 psi.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-02-2007, 06:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Correct, the overboost is strictly for protection if the wastegate were to stick closed. In reality, I'd venture to say that most of the systems won't work properly due to the sensor on the manifold getting plugged with carbon over time. I recently tested the SD without a wastegate hose. The circuit never worked.

The "banjo fitting" which you've probably heard of, is attached to the back of the intake manifold. It sends a pressure signal to the "ALDA" which allows the IP to advance the rack and provide more fuel to the cylinders.

The wastegate setpoint is a crude spring affair that is not calibrated very accurately on most vehicles. Some are set to 6-7 psi and some are close to the specification of 12-13 psi.
Thanks Brian, now I know why I cleaned the banjo fitting and adjusted the ALDA!

So if the wastegate opens at 6psi then the car would be underpowered correct?

I'll have to take some pictures to see if I can correctly identify these parts now.
__________________
1987 300SDL 167k
1992 Volvo 740 140k
1990 Volvo 740 250k
1989 Volvo 240 269k

Anyone want to trade an old Volvo for an '87 300sdl?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-02-2007, 07:11 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by New2MB View Post
Thanks Brian, now I know why I cleaned the banjo fitting and adjusted the ALDA!

So if the wastegate opens at 6psi then the car would be underpowered correct?

I'll have to take some pictures to see if I can correctly identify these parts now.
Yes, if the wastegate only allows 6psi, the vehicle won't produce full hp.

That'll be the ticket.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-03-2007, 01:02 AM
bgkast's Avatar
Rollin' on 16s
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 6,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Yes, if the wastegate only allows 6psi, the vehicle won't produce full hp.

That'll be the ticket.
Exactly what mine seems to be doing. I get 9 psi with the wastegate hose off. I should check for exhaust leaks nefore I pull the dang turbo again I guess. If it comes off It is getting replaced with some sort of upgrade...holset!
__________________
1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-03-2007, 09:17 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgkast View Post
Exactly what mine seems to be doing. I get 9 psi with the wastegate hose off. I should check for exhaust leaks nefore I pull the dang turbo again I guess. If it comes off It is getting replaced with some sort of upgrade...holset!
Something is amiss or the wastegate is leaking badly. You should get about 20 psi with the wastegate hose removed.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page