Bosios Vs Bosch (France) Injector Nozzles - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

redassag00 · #1 06-19-2006, 11:41 AM

Hi Guys,
I'm going to treat Rag Doll to a new set of Injector Nozzles.

I see someone here has a line on some Bosch France Nozzles, which are probably going to be better than Indian Bosch Units. I wanted to know what kind of power increases I would see, and which Nozzles, if any would provide more power/smoother operation.

Of Course, anything is going to be better than what's currently in there, so I'm not sure what direction I'm going to with that, I wanted to get some feedback here.

Also, after replacing nozzles, is it worth geting them balanced and pop tested, or is that a moot point with new injector nozzles?

Thanks gang,
Dub

Pete Burton · #2 06-19-2006, 11:54 AM

I don't understand why someone wouldn't bother to test and balance the set. A Bosch service center is set up to do this easily, and it can make a big difference. It's also, (did I forget to use the magic word?) pretty CHEAP.

redassag00 · #3 06-19-2006, 10:44 PM

Good point. I was under the impression by one of the sellers of these that I didnt need to do that if I bought their nozzles. I dont see a point in removing it twice though.

TwitchKitty · #4 06-20-2006, 07:03 AM

Do it once, do it right and move on to bigger and better things.

With new nozzles in injectors that perform to specs, valves adjusted, and clean fluids, filters and screens, you are well on your way to many miles of trouble free motoring.

Read about two micron fuel filters and the extended fuel system life they may provide. Run some searches here and on google.

Diesel Giant · #5 06-20-2006, 08:42 AM

I never said dont test them, I have always maintained that if you want to then by all means go for it. I have said that it is not necessary to do it, but again its your choice. Most injector problems are due to the nozzles not functioning properly. Fix the problem and well, the problem goes away.

I did not test and balance them in the '84 and it runs perfectly. Again like always its your call. If you only feel comfortable with testing and balancing them then do that. Never hurts to do it.

redassag00 · #6 06-20-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel Giant

I never said dont test them, I have always maintained that if you want to then by all means go for it. I have said that it is not necessary to do it, but again its your choice.

I never said you said it

87tdwagen · #7 06-21-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redassag00

Hi Guys,
I'm going to treat Rag Doll to a new set of Injector Nozzles.

I wanted to know what kind of power increases I would see, and which Nozzles, if any would provide more power/smoother operation.

Also, after replacing nozzles, is it worth geting them balanced and pop tested, or is that a moot point with new injector nozzles?

Thanks gang,
Dub

Hi,

I just replaced my set of nozzles in the 603 to fix a slight nailing issue in one my stock units. Figured on replacing them all since they never had been serviced siince new and already had 224k miles on them.

I used a set of bosio's out of the box from Dieselgiant without testing them mainly because all of the innards in my OE units were in very fine shape. My stock units ran very well before and I just wanted to fix a slight tick at cold start-up that bothered me (sounded like a Singer with a tick).

Results, My OE Bosch Germany nozzles were in excellet to near new condition, I mean almost no carbon on the seal washers or injector tips, just a small dust coat, amazing really for the life of these units and how hard I push them. So now they remain as a spare set.

The Bosios are beautifully made, quality appears to be on par with the German Bosch ones. Installation was easy and they fired right up after priming the fuel system. At first they ran just like my old ones did, good but with a slight tick. Well they are new...so the gal and I did a nice 500 mile weekend trip. Now that the Bosio's are broken in, they perform very well. My tick is finally gone, although now a lifter is rearing its ugly head.

Point of it all, I feel that my OE nozzles were in great working order, replacement with Bosio nozzles yeilded a slightly better running order right out of the box and after breaking in without prior testing. I would say that's pretty good for out of the box.

If you are going to use other Bosch nozzels or if your injector innards are damaged, worn shims, broken springs, then you should test and balance the whole set prior to use. If all else looks well, I'd say install the Bosio's and drive them for a few hundred miles.

Good luck

uberwgn · #8 06-21-2006, 06:42 PM

In many cases the nozzles can be installed without pop testing and will provice flawless operation. However, if someone is experiencing poor idle quality, you might want to have them checked. It's ideal to travel a few thousand miles before the pressures are set. The nozzles need a little time to bed in.

I've used Bosio and Bosch. They both work well and I cannot say conclusively one is better than the other. I had my Bosio nozzles checked at a Bosch shop and the guy said they have a spray pattern somewhat different compared to the Bosch pattern.

TwitchKitty · #9 06-22-2006, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87tdwagen

The Bosios are beautifully made, quality appears to be on par with the German Bosch ones.

You would have to look at them under powerful magnification to make a meaningful statement about quality.

dannym · #10 06-22-2006, 08:45 AM

I agree.
Those Bosio nozzles are fairly new and I don't think anyone has run them long enough to draw any conclusions on their quality.

DAnny

uberwgn · #11 06-22-2006, 09:00 AM

Bosio is one of many aftermarket nozzle mfrs. While the product appears to be of good quality, there is nothing exceptional about it, there's no top-secret R&D taking place at Bosio on diesel FI equipment.

Story

rs899 · #12 06-22-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Bosio is one of many aftermarket nozzle mfrs. While the product appears to be of good quality, there is nothing exceptional about it, there's no top-secret R&D taking place at Bosio on diesel FI equipment.

So, what other options do we currently have here for new off-the-shelf OM616/7 nozzles, if not Bosch(India- improved or not) and Bosio. I do not know of any.

87tdwagen · #13 06-22-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannym

I agree.
Those Bosio nozzles are fairly new and I don't think anyone has run them long enough to draw any conclusions on their quality.

DAnny

Bosio's have been around for a looong time, they may not have been as well known in the US diesel market and particularly with respect to MB's is the US, but they are very well known and respected throughout Europe. Here's a cool link regarding some exclusive views into the Fratelli Bosio factory and a meeting with the founder and current management. Great info for more details on the company it's history, manufacturing and products:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=601877

Also google them as Fratelli Bosio and you will see tons of hits on their extended use in the performance diesel industry here in the US and worldwide, pretty consistent rave reviews throughout.

TwichKitty:
Thanks, I had seen the magnified images that you mentioned, as well as others on the TDI and several other diesel forums with similar images of various nozzles. From what I have seen, the Bosio machine work seems comparable to German Bosch in those images as well as the metallurgical properties; this is in part why I chose them as a suitable alternative to non-German Bosch ones.

I do not market, sell or promote for Bosio or for any reseller. I do extensive research into any product I consider buying and keep an open mind to those that may not yet be as pervasive in my locality. There is always something else better out there if you’re willing to look and research.

I also wholeheartedly agree, don't believe all the hype...buyer beware, do your research first and then shop with confidence.

Since I have these installed, I will comment on their performance over time and use, I average about 25k miles a year, so it shouldn't be long to get some meaningful results.

87tdwagen · #14 06-22-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

You would have to look at them under powerful magnification to make a meaningful statement about quality.

Agreed about the magnification which I don't have, but after years of looking at these and various other nozzles and fine machine parts, you can tell when when a part has better machining tollerances and crisper edges etc. as a rough gauge of mfg. quality.

The real determination regarding quality will have to wait another 220K miles to see if they really are on par with the Bosch Germany nozzles.

But for now I'm happy with them and they seem to perform well

hockeynut · #15 06-22-2006, 12:20 PM

Can't most people simply take their old injectors to a local diesel shop and have them rebuilt? I am planning on doing that in a week or two. The guy quoted me $45 each and they completely rebuild/replace whatever is needed. He said he has all the internal parts on hand, etc. Price includes testing/spray pattern, etc.

Wouldn't that be the same or better than going out and buying rebuilt injectors?

BTW - he said he had never heard of Bosio, but that his nozzles did come from Italy - thought they were better than the ones they were getting prior.

It is a reputable shop.