new to MB just got a 66 200D couple ?'s - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

holdthewind · #1 09-13-2007, 04:34 AM

This 200D is not only my first MB but my first diesel also. When i bought the car the guy said the motor was seized and that he put marvel mystery oil in the cylinders. so far I've replaced the battery cleaned up and added another ground to the block. Low and be hold after a couple of times pulling the start knob she turned over easily.

She wont fire up so i took the hard fuel lines off the IP and turned her over a few more times, should there be diesel coming out of the IP when the lines are removed? If so where do i start to remedy the no fuel situation?

After a few searches and looking at all the info I can find on the block I believe the engine is out of a 220D and not a 200D. The engine has the fuel injectors with the cloth return fuel lines connecting them not the hard line returns that i believe came on the 200D and there was a metal placard on the side of the block with the #'s 5246 220D 268522 and on the front side of the head it has the #'s 615 016 11 01. Is this a 220D engine and if so is it more desirable than the 200D engine? whats the difference between the two engines?

t walgamuth · #2 09-13-2007, 06:07 AM

The 220 should be a later model. It should also have improved features.

Tom W

dabenz · #3 09-13-2007, 08:49 AM

The difference in the engines depends on the version of the 220D that you have. In general, the 220D is a "modern" engine, and is the last of the "gravity" injection pump engines. There was a posting a few years ago that explained the engine codes. Was a head gasket issue with these engines - mostly due to Americans not knowing how to drive these cars. A water separator is about the only "extra" needed, in my opinion. Your issue will always be what parts that were brought along when the engine was changed. Fortunately MB has a habit of stamping/casting a number on almost every part.

If it was me then my next steps would be the fuel and air systems:
1. Polish the fuel in the tank. Fancy way of saying to filter (and dewater). Lots of ways to do it - I've even used a house furnace oil filter in a pinch. Strongly recommend cleaning the tank and a strong dose of biocide.
2. Replace the rubber/cloth covered injector return lines now.
3. Change the fuel filters (and engine oil and filter if you haven't yet). Blow back the fuel lines from the primary (first) fuel filter - this ensures that the fuel tank strainer is clear.
4. Blow back the fuel return line (to tank) from the secondary filter connection. I would replace the rubber parts in both tank lines.
5. Hand prime the fuel system - be prepared to fix or replace the hand pump. Remember to check the oil level in the injection pump.
6. Clean the strainer for the air filter (am assuming an oil bath) and make sure the air duct rubber pieces aren't cracked open.

Then check the glow plug system.

I like pull-starting the beasts that have sat for a while, and I use the coolant heater or a pan of charcoal to warm things up before the "first start". Buying parts from here keeps this "free" web site going - you'll like the service these guys provide. A decent service manual is always better than hours of scratching the head - the folks here offer the ones from the manufacturer.

It doesn't get much easier than these engines - as long as you're willing to punch through a small learning curve.

kerry · #4 09-13-2007, 09:58 AM

To get it running, I would simply bypass the whole existing fuel tank and lines to exclude any problems associated with them and hook up a gallon jug of fresh diesel in the engine compartment directly to the primary filter with the return line going into the jug also. If you can get it running on an alternative fuel source, I then go about checking the existing fuel system.
That engine should have series glowplugs so you can see if they are working by visually observing the heavy squiggly wires that join them together to see if they glow red or get hot when the glowplugs are activated.
You need fuel, air, compression and glow to get it going.
I second the idea of pull starting. A number of people on the forum have started engines that sat for a long time successfully by pull starting when the starter couldn't get them going.

holdthewind · #5 09-13-2007, 02:40 PM

I've got the service manual from MB but it doesn't make it to the 220D series. Is the basic step for timing the IP the same for both the 200D and the 220D engines? I wont get much time to work on her this weekend. In fact I've gotta go synch the carbs and do a Minny tune-up on the VW Westfalia camper bus, so we can leave this weekend. When I get back I'll post pics and a progress report if desired

holdthewind · #6 09-13-2007, 02:44 PM

Are there any diesel faithfulls around PDX?

holdthewind · #7 09-14-2007, 08:53 PM

I unscrewed the injection pipe unions from the injection pump and there was diesel underneath all of them I then turned over the engine without the injection pump unions in and fuel did come out of the holes, slowly. I watches as my wife turned over the engine and i could see into the IP. While the engine was turning over i saw that two of the four holes had some kind of plunger(?) inside moving up and down. the other two were not moving. I reinstalled the injection pipe unions ( no lines hooked up) on all four and cranked the engine over, but no fuel come out of the IP. Would this be a bad IP? or am i missing something very simple and cheap hopefully.

300SDog · #8 09-14-2007, 09:57 PM

Cheapest and simplest thing you're missing is air in the system. By pulling the injector pipes you've made it tougher on yerself to start the car for obvious reasons - filling the pipes with air.

What's history of the vehicle? How long off the road? And are you using the pull-knob engine glow system correctly? No shame there, its complicated ritual starting primitive diesels with old fashioned glow system. Arguably takes 5 minutes to start the car, even if you know what yer doing.

Your 220/200D w110 Fintail is diamond in the rough. Learned just last week at Vintage Forum that engines from 115's will bolt straight in. Hell, the only reason i wouldnt drive finbody diesel everyday is because its too sloooow in its original 190/200 configuration even for me.

The 220D engine upgrade is entirely kosher and oughta be considered a blessing. And shelling out for rebuilt injector pump is worthwhile assuming sheetmetal's rust-free.

lietuviai · #9 09-14-2007, 10:07 PM

Is this the car mentioned in this thread?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=199169

holdthewind · #10 09-16-2007, 11:01 PM

Not sure if thats the same MB, page is expired. If it was the black fintail with the nice interior, then yes it was the one and the same.

As far as using the glow plug system I turned the key all the way then pulled the knob out about 3/4 waited till the wire under the salt shaker lid (?) was glowing red then pulled out the knob turn turn over the engine.

Does anybody know of a good place around Vancouver/Portland area to have the IP checked out/Rebuilt?

Thanks
Mark

lietuviai · #11 09-16-2007, 11:41 PM

Before you go to the trouble of pulling the IP and spending any money needlessly, check the compression. That way you'll know if the engine is any good.

dabenz · #12 09-17-2007, 12:16 AM

Hi Mark,

Regarding the injection pump, hopefully you've just pulled the pipes and not the clamps and maybe messed up the injection timing for that cylinder. Isn't much point in doing that at this stage, in my opinion. We don't know if you've changed the fuel filters and primed the secondary filter. What did the previous owner do when the engine "didn't run"? Is there a reason why you suspect a rarely failing injection pump? In the vast majority of cases the problem is a plugged tank strainer and/or plugged filters or owner induced air leak (the leak goes into the fuel lines and you may or may not see it).

Yes, your glowing procedure is correct from "inside the car" perspective. How long did you glow? How quickly did the salt shaker heat up? Outside air temperature? Did the "coat hanger" resistors heat up? Did the dash lights or overhead lights dim? Is the final ground wire clean brite and tight? Are the ceramics cracked from over-tightening?

The starter on a diesel needs to spin fairly quickly compared to a gas engine. You can have everything else right on but suffer a no start from a slow starter. One of those "experience" diagnoses, I guess - you learn what's fast enough. That's why I like pull starting the sitting beasts - can get engine spinning to develop oil pressure and heat the pre-chambers a bit then pull the gorilla knob to run - it's going to start or it won't. If it starts and runs then you can go back and verify glow and starting systems.

Seems like a lot to learn but you'll get it. Search one topic at a time.

KCM · #13 09-17-2007, 11:22 AM

I think you are condemning the injection pump way to soon. They usually don't give a problem. By unscrewing the unions you likely created a fuel leak, as in my experience, the copper washer under the union and o-ring on the union need to be replaces whenever the union is removed. If you have no fuel coming out of the injector lines at the injector when cranking, then it won't start. Use the hand pump and loosen the bleeder screw on the filter to pump all the air out, then crank the engine with the injector lines loose at the injectors (and bleeder closed) until fuel comes out to get the system free of air.

One thing to check is to make sure the small delivery pump on the side of the main injectin pump is pumping fuel. Remove the line from this pump to the filter and check to see if it pumps out fuel when cranking. The plunger in the pump can get stuck if it has sat for a while, but unbolts easily with two nuts if necessary.

holdthewind · #14 09-18-2007, 08:48 PM

Took the side plate off of the IP and the first piston and the third pistons were not moving when the engine was cranked over. I also noticed that the fuel rod was not moving when the lever was pulled. Now what do i do?

holdthewind · #15 09-22-2007, 04:40 AM

Well i felt I'd be light years ahead having the injection pump looked at since the first and third piston elements were sticking along with the fuel rod. So i had Diesel Fuel Injection Service in Portland, OR. Look at the IP and figure out if the injection pump was messed up, needed a rebuild or just a freshening up. The guys at DFIS (Diesel Fuel Injection Service ) were very nice and they look like and sound like they do quality work (figures crossed so far).

when I got the IP back I lined up the missing tooth on the IP and the mark scored in the ip then the mark in the block and the ip, hooked up all the lines etc. pulled the knob and let the glow plug salt shaker get warm and after letting it turn over for about a minute it fired up.

She smokes allot and there is defiantly a knock/nailing happening but i think that some of the gas is still probably not the best and some of the marvels mystery oil the PO soaked the engine in is probably in the crankcase, possibly an injector is bad and so forth.

Is there anybody around the Vancouver/Portland area have a drip tool and the know how to help a newbie time an IP better?

I now need to freshen the brakes and other misc. items before she'll be transporting me to school and back.

My only complaint about DFIS (Diesel Fuel Injection Service ) would be that Rod at DFIS said they would diagnose the problem and do no work ($) would be done until i was contacted before hand with the exact cost. Rod also said if it was only gummed up and needed only freeing up and calibration (not torn apart and rebuilt) that it would be only $150-$175. So I was surprised when I received the call today saying that the ip was ready, especially when I was told yesterday that they were were at least a week out on looking at the ip. The problem was the bill was $272

and that it was only varnished up and that they cleaned it up with out completely taking it apart and that they calibrated it also. I'm sure thats not an outrageous price and it was done before i expected it but not only was I expecting to get a call before the work was done but the cost was over $100 more than I expected. I'm an unemployed student with a mortgage and all the trimmings I've acquired before I was downsized due to corporate greed so the cost was quite allot more than i expected. Anybody in the market for a kidney

I've got a spare.
Sorry the last was just a rant, I know when working with cars especially with classics it always cost allot more than expected at least shes running again after some thirteen plus years