RIV timing method - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lakerat · #1 10-20-2007, 04:06 PM

I am using M.B. DOC RIV tool to check and adjust if needed IP timing on 84 300 turbo diesel. I have 335,000 miles with 2.5 degrees of chain stretch. I cant believe what I am seeing if I am reading the balancer right, but does this picture indicate the timing is right on 15 degrees it has never been adjusted since purchased with 52,000 miles on it. M.B DOC says its best to set to 14 - 14.5 degrees is it worth the effort to change this. Thanks for any input.

junqueyardjim · #2 10-20-2007, 04:20 PM

And I would not mess with it to pick up that half of or one degree. I think that would be like looking for trouble - just how I feel about it.

#3 10-20-2007, 07:23 PM

That picture is showing 15 degrees AFTER top dead center, NOT before top dead center. Does the engine run?

jbaj007 · #4 10-20-2007, 07:33 PM

15º ATDC is correct for the RIV tool; it's just measuring a different point on the pump than the other methods. Still the same time of injection, but a different reference point on the IP shaft.

junqueyardjim · #5 10-20-2007, 07:38 PM

It looks to me like he is coming up on the timing marks, (before "0") after the zero shows, wouldn't that be after tdc. That is what I see. Nope, looked at it again and I think Larry is correct. Sorry!

jbaj007 · #6 10-20-2007, 07:50 PM

drip method...................24º BTDC
RIV light method.............15º ATDC
IP locking pin method.......15º ATDC
pulse piezo method..........14º BTDC

All these methods measure the same event (fuel hitting the prechamber), but from different reference points, both in location and time.

lakerat · #7 10-20-2007, 08:20 PM

Is this correct am I seeing 15 degrees ATTC?

sixto · #8 10-20-2007, 09:08 PM

That is the consensus.

Sixto
87 300D

Brian Carlton · #9 10-21-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakerat

Is this correct am I seeing 15 degrees ATTC?

Correct. The setting for the RIV tool is definitely 15 ATDC. If the two lights are illuminated with the engine at the position indicated.............you are done.

If this is truly the case, you've got an almost unbelievable situation. None of these diesels with some mileage on them are dead on the IP timing specification. There must have been a chain done in the not too distant past.

lakerat · #10 10-21-2007, 07:22 PM

I purchased the car from a dealer with 58,000 miles on it .I am the second owner and have not put a new chain on it. I have used dino oil with 3000 mile oil changes since I have owned it. I have owned it for 17 years ,it runs perfect. I was truly amazed when both lights lit on the tool and it was on 15 degrees, I could not believe it, I thought I must have been seeing things wrong thats why I posted the picture. This car will be running until I die!!! The trans. is the orginal and still shifts perfect and the paint is orginal and still shines. I think this car is the best built car in the world.

minimike1 · #11 10-21-2007, 07:53 PM

question from a newbie: What is RIV? Thanks.
Mike

wgilmore · #12 12-09-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimike1

question from a newbie: What is RIV? Thanks.
Mike

The RIV light referred to is a static position sensor used to detect the injection pump flyweight reference indicator (RI generator pin) in the injection pump body. The RIV is used to verify and adjust if necessary the injection pump timing to set to spec start of delivery of fuel at say 15 degrees ATDC for a 603.961 engine. This RIV is an electromechanical version referred to here that works using reluctance variance.
Hope this info answers your question.

Brian Carlton · #13 12-09-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgilmore

This RIV is an electromechanical version referred to here that works using reluctance variance.
Hope this info answers your question.

After attempting to diagnose the problem with my own RIV tool, I think the tool is much more simple in design.

Apparently, there is no reluctance utilized. Inside the IP is a triangular nosepiece. This piece rolls around into one of the prongs on the sender. It provides a ground for the unit and the "B" light is illuminated. The piece rolls a bit further and it contacts both prongs on the sender, simultaneously. Both the "A" and "B" light are now illuminated. The piece rools a bit further and it loses contact with the first prong. Now the "A" light is illuminated. Finally, it moves further and the piece rolls off the last prong and all the lights are out.

The device can't be simpler............and it costs upward of $300. I'm in the wrong business.

hey_allen · #14 12-09-2007, 12:55 PM

Heh. I've wondered in the past if it wasn't more simple than others were reporting it to be, but I didn't have one to play with to examine, so...

Speaking as one who prefers to build all my own "special" tools, does anyone have any basic dimensions for the IP locking tool, that holds the indicator point in the right location?

I'm interested in just milling a groove on the face of a correct diameter rod and dropping it in the hole to help resetting the timing on the IP.

oldiesel · #15 12-09-2007, 08:18 PM

I used the unthreaded shank of a 7/16 uss bolt after i cut the head off.I carefully scribed a line across the center of the cut off end of the bolt and using 2 blades in the hacksaw to get a wide cut i carefully cut a slot about 1/16th deep. This seems to work very well(300d 2.5). As you move the pump after positioning the engine to the timing mark slowly twirl the tool by the threaded end while exerting very light pressure on it.When the timing piece in the pump lines up the groove in the tool will engage it.It will not engage even if it is just the slightest bit off.Of course you must first look in the hole and determine which way the pump needs to be moved.Worked for me,easy to make and probably free as everyone has a few extra bolts lying around and a couple of hacksaw blades. My $.02 Don