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  #241  
Old 03-31-2021, 10:47 AM
sixto's Avatar
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Did they fail internally or did they get too close to the fan?

You can have steel braided lines fabricated for your engine but just get OE quality lines and plan to replace them in 20 years. Mind how the ends are clocked if you have them rebuilt.

Sixto
00 E320 wagon 158K miles (for sale)
05 E320 wagon 171K miles

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  #242  
Old 03-31-2021, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennislarock View Post
Just blew the engine in my '85TD... oil cooler line blew.
I have another good '84TD engine... I also have a very good '84D.

Now that I am paranoid... who has the best oil cooler lines? I see Ken from MS has them from Monarch... are there any other good choices out there? I do have an excellent hydraulic hose company nearby that could make some up for me.

Opinions Are GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Thank You,

dennis
How did the line fail? Blow off or rupture? Or the fan belt got it?

I believe Ken's hoses are made in Germany by the original supplier. Although good quality hose with clamps and safety wires to me are good enough and generally I tend to be a little anal at times.

Without the safety wires I would not feel comforatable at all. As the hose ages the compression force of the clamp can be reduced. Those that are already just running with clamps. Can add another one with a safety wire under it usually. It is cheap to do and eliminates basically any chance of a blowoff. Personally I would close the loop of the safety wire.

Smaller diameter stainless wire should be good enough. A good enough source for the wire in my case is some of my stainless mig wire. Or ask a guy that welds for a piece of his.

There has been resistance to doing this by guys using clamps. My guess is in their life experience they have never had hoses blow off things.I have and in some cases it was unexpected.
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  #243  
Old 03-31-2021, 11:23 AM
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Location: New Orleans
Posts: 140
The line was probably original... I've had the car since 07. It blew apart at the top of the crimp... not a crack or leak ...it totally separated. It sucks because it was a strong engine with great compression. I was on I-10 with music blasting... I glanced, no oil pressure, turned it off, hit neutral, killed the music and coasted to a stop. Had it towed, put a wrench on the crank... Locked ...done.
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'84 300D (211k) *New*... (Wife's)
'85 300TD (174K) 10th Year... (Mine)
'96 F-350 7.3L Dually (149K) Since New
'85 300D (156K) ~~~Wrecked~~~ Damn it! (parts)
'84 300D (176k) ~~~Wrecked~~~ Damn it! (parts)
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  #244  
Old 03-31-2021, 12:02 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
I have and in some cases it was unexpected.
In some cases it was expected???

Sixto
00 E320 wagon 158K miles (for sale)
05 E320 wagon 171K miles
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  #245  
Old 03-31-2021, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
By far the easiest and best in my opinion is to have the hose shop crimp on new hose. The hose assemblies are easier to remove/replace with the engine out, so have the hoses rebuilt before installing the new engine. I am fortunate to have a crimper, so I use A/C hose and sleeves. If I am desperate, I rebuild the hoses while they are in the car by grinding off the old sleeves and using heavy duty hose clamps (two per joint) and 5/8 hydraulic hose. Although I have never had a failure doing it this way, it is still best to rebuild the hoses out of the car, and with crimped on sleeves....Rich
If someone rebuilds the hoses you need to remind them to be sure to index the hoses properly. Also do US Hose shops have metric hoses?
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  #246  
Old 03-31-2021, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennislarock View Post
The line was probably original... I've had the car since 07. It blew apart at the top of the crimp... not a crack or leak ...it totally separated. It sucks because it was a strong engine with great compression. I was on I-10 with music blasting... I glanced, no oil pressure, turned it off, hit neutral, killed the music and coasted to a stop. Had it towed, put a wrench on the crank... Locked ...done.
I bought my 84 300D in 2007 and I started this thread in 11-11-2007. In particular the hot side Oil Cooler Hose was seeping when I got it. They surely would not have lasted till 2021.

Since I a not a person that periodically cleans under the hood I can see if the hoses are seeping. So that is one area where clean can be a determent to evidence of a up coming problem.
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  #247  
Old 03-31-2021, 12:48 PM
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Thanks guys... I feel a little better having some shoulders to cry on.

The hose shop here rebuilds hydraulics, nothing else... something like 50 years or so. They did all my excavators/skid-steers/bucket trucks and HDD drilling machines. They've done some of my MB AC lines as well, flawlessly. When I yank the engine I'll take them the cooler lines to build a hard set (like the originals) out of stainless for the '85TD and and a second set of 'soft/flex' for the '84D so I can do that car as well.
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'84 300D (211k) *New*... (Wife's)
'85 300TD (174K) 10th Year... (Mine)
'96 F-350 7.3L Dually (149K) Since New
'85 300D (156K) ~~~Wrecked~~~ Damn it! (parts)
'84 300D (176k) ~~~Wrecked~~~ Damn it! (parts)
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  #248  
Old 03-31-2021, 03:47 PM
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I'm now using Cohline 15mm hose, double clamps and safety wire. No leaks.. no issues. I can certainly see it being a viable permanent fix. Just monitor the hoses for signs of failure such as weeping oil or movement and address it before they fail.

If you want something better... convert to PTFE lined braided hose and fittings. Not overly expensive (~100 in fittings and hose) and fittings are readily available. You'll need to drill/tap the cooler but otherwise, it's not bad.
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  #249  
Old 03-31-2021, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
In some cases it was expected???

Sixto
00 E320 wagon 158K miles (for sale)
05 E320 wagon 171K miles
You slide a hose on and were not certain the force of doing so was adaquate. To keep it on. Usually in some temporary situation. No clamps handy. Garden hoses are a frequent offender.

After some thought.The posters outer hose rotted in the crimp area. So it basicaly slid or tore off. If he examines it I suspect the core of the hose is still really good.

For those that have older hoses that still appear good. Yet they have no intent of changing them Some insurance may be enabled by a clamp and safety wire at each hose termination. I can think of no way to really establish the real condition of hoses like this.

Under an hours time can easily secure them from blow off. As I know so many will not entertain replacing the hoses. The potential consequences are so severe of doing nothing. At least what I propose is at least doing something. Chances are very strong that when you look at your hoses they are very very old.

I used to tell the ladies I was cheap. Beyond a smile or laugh it did not produce huge results. In this case about four dollars is cheap and just might save a relationship or two.It is far better in my opinion than doing nothing.

The inner core does not really vulcanize to the barb to start with.Like a radiator hose does with time. As the rad hose has no internal core With the oil cooler hoses core not being actual rubber.

The rubber and strengthening strands in it.Rot with time and exposure to the heat. Reducing the factory compression strength applied.

This has been too common of an engine killer to totally ignore. I am just an older guy that should have considered this before. I had always suggested safety wires on home replacement of the hoses. My slow thinking may be age related. I missed that it could easily be applied to existing hoses.

From a technical perspective if there is end seepage present. The engine oil will increase the rotting of the rubber exponentially. You have to get that hose changed out.

Last edited by barry12345; 03-31-2021 at 04:10 PM.
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  #250  
Old 03-31-2021, 03:52 PM
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To paraphrase Barry...

"After some thought.The posters hose rotted in the crimp area. So it basically slid or tore off."


It tore off 'Completely' even with the top of the crimp.



"I am just an older guy that should have considered this before. My slower thinking may be age related."

Why do I feel like I'm looking in a mirror?



BTW - the '84TD is not listed below... have to update my sig
__________________
'84 300D (211k) *New*... (Wife's)
'85 300TD (174K) 10th Year... (Mine)
'96 F-350 7.3L Dually (149K) Since New
'85 300D (156K) ~~~Wrecked~~~ Damn it! (parts)
'84 300D (176k) ~~~Wrecked~~~ Damn it! (parts)
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  #251  
Old 03-31-2021, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
How did the line fail? Blow off or rupture? Or the fan belt got it?

I believe Ken's hoses are made in Germany by the original supplier. Although good quality hose with clamps and safety wires to me are good enough and generally I tend to be a little anal at times.

Without the safety wires I would not feel comforatable at all. As the hose ages the compression force of the clamp can be reduced. Those that are already just running with clamps. Can add another one with a safety wire under it usually. It is cheap to do and eliminates basically any chance of a blowoff. Personally I would close the loop of the safety wire.

Smaller diameter stainless wire should be good enough. A good enough source for the wire in my case is some of my stainless mig wire. Or ask a guy that welds for a piece of his.

There has been resistance to doing this by guys using clamps. My guess is in their life experience they have never had hoses blow off things.I have and in some cases it was unexpected.
The Monark hoses from he who shall not be linked are out of stock. This from looking at his site today. They were out of stock approx Jan. '20 when I was shopping for them. Then I looked again at his vid extolling the virtue of those hoses - it was about 6 years old IIRC. I was disappointed but both hoses were leaking at the hose to steel line joint at the radiator. Not replacing was not a good option. I wish I'd kept better records of the ones I bought, probably have it somewhere. Had to get two different brands, for one, the lower I think, there was only one manufacturer still going on it.

Worst case scenario: what D911 describes might be the only option one day. I wish I'd saved my old lines at this point. The steel parts could be useful.
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Last edited by cmac2012; 04-01-2021 at 03:06 AM.
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  #252  
Old 03-31-2021, 05:18 PM
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This is what I did. I used Goodyear Galaxy 5/8” barrier hose. It was after posts by BillGrissom and RollGuy Rich. Great stuff.



I put an Oeticker clamp around the hose. I intended to loop a safety wire through it for blowoff protection. But I never followed through. I think the AC crimps aren’t coming off. The hose has held up well for a couple of years now. The idea was to do this which is what I did on my AC refrigerant lines. I guess my thinking was I didn’t want my refrigerant lines popping off while I was working on the car and freezing my face off. Silly reasoning but this is what I did. Safety wire to hose clamps with crimp ferrule. Oh yeah now I remember...the barbs on the AC line are really shallow grooves compared to the proper barbs on the oil lines. I was scared of blowoff.



The tool is awesome. They’re so cheap on fleabay now. I thought I got a good deal at $150 last year. They’re less now. I’m not sure whether to be happy or sad about this. I’m happy to own the tool for lunch money but Mastercool must be getting destroyed. Complaints aside it’s an amazing tool for the money. I did AC lines, Oil cooler lines.



These are the Oeticker crimpers. I think they are real Oeticker brand. I thought these would be cool to have in my garage but I soon learned a particular set of clamps doesn’t cover a lot of range like worm gear clamps. I ended up buying a big box of many sizes to have on hand. They are great for garden hoses because they don’t cut up your hand.

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79 300TD “Old Smokey” AKA “The Mistake” (SOLD)
82 240D stick shift 335k miles (SOLD)
82 300SD 250k miles
85 300D Turbodiesel 165k miles
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  #253  
Old 03-31-2021, 06:12 PM
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Great post, thanks. Looks clear to me from the pic of the tool that you'd have to remove the lines and replace the hoses on the bench.

And I agree about garden hoses and the like. Having a traditional hose clamp right where your and will be gripping is a PITA.

*ETA* But wait, I might be misunderstanding something here. The longer clamp, the part closer to the attachment point is not what you replaced but rather the smaller clamp behind them? There was enough steel under that part to make them work?
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  #254  
Old 03-31-2021, 09:02 PM
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Yes, they were off on the bench. I had to cut them off with a dremel or disk grinder cutoff wheel...cannot recall. Maybe a hacksaw in my vise and tugging with pliers. Wow, I cannot recall how I took the old crimp ferrules off...but yes I did it on the bench.

Ok, so the little Oeticker band clamp is NOT crunching down on the rubber over the metal barb. It’s just crimped down over the rubber hose. The gold AC crimp ferrule is what is holding down the rubber hose to the pipe barb.

The idea was to put the Oeticker band down to provide an anchor point for a safety wire. I never put the wire on. You can see the strategy in use on my ac hoses in the following images. I was assuming it wouldn’t slip off in a blowout situation but yes, as you observed, it is too far back to be clamping over the metal pipe internally and is kind of dodgy. It was not meant as a double clamp.

The AC crimps look pretty strong. I think they’ll hold. As people have suggested here, the blowoff problem occurs when the hose rots and shrinks with age. The inside of the Galaxy hose has a really tough rigid liner that I suspect will outlast me. I think the key is to watch for weeping at the ferrules and change the hoses immediately if you see signs that the seal has been compromised there.

Edit - oh I see what your asking. I replaced both clamps. The Oeticker is new and the crimp ferrule is new. It’s an AC hose crimp.
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82 240D stick shift 335k miles (SOLD)
82 300SD 250k miles
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  #255  
Old 03-31-2021, 10:44 PM
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This is my first exposure to that sort of do it yourself crimp. Thanks for the extra help. I've seen them certainly and I can see that the tool in box is used for those. I didn't understand the various studded looking things with the different colored plastic rings attaching them so I did a video search for using them. It's (mostly) all clear to me now. I didn't follow the "AC crimp" designation, didn't seem like a brand name - but now I see (I think), apparently they're used in refrigerant/air conditioning lines.

Using the Oeticker clamp ring to attach the stainless wire makes sense. The end of the AC crimp would push against it if it tried to slide off and it would be tricky to come up with a good attachment point for the wire on the crimped piece itself.

I'm assuming the crimps are made with some sort of zinc coated steel. There is a goldish colored plating I've seen a few times. All I really know about it is you shouldn't weld it. I got the impression that it's worse to weld than other zinc plating. But I can't imagine the crimps are made of brass. I get that many of the PEX crimps are made of copper, sort of amazing to me the way the stuff is reduced in diameter without distorting the round shape.

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