HELP Do I need a new IP? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

nick_russo · #1 11-12-2007, 04:40 PM

Please somebody have an answer.

Last month I drove the 1996 E300 with 80,000 miles down to Disney. It ran great but when we got there I did notice a diesel smell. We were all excited about vacation so I told myself I was imagining it.

We drove home and the car still ran great, no problems but the diesel smell followed us home. I looked though the car and finally found the problem. When I removed the plastic cover to expose the injectors I found a pool of diesel on top of the engine. (the car still ran fine at this point but I did notice the glow plug light coming on) I replaced the return lines but as I was doing it I broke a screwdriver in the number 4 injector. When I started the car it ran very rough so I replaced the injector. No good so I replaced the other 5. Still no good so I had it towed to a local shop.

When they first saw it they said it was only running on 5 cylinders, that's why it was smoking and running so rough. They pulled the injectors and did a compression check and said everything looked good. He said the only other thing it could be is the IP for the price of ... $2,900.00! He said it is getting too much fuel and thats why its running so poorly.

I thought the problem might have been electronic. There was allot of diesel under the hood, my glow plug light just started coming on and I have had problems with the wiring harness before (read my stalling post) but he said it couldn't be.

PLEASE HELP

aklim · #2 11-12-2007, 04:47 PM

I had a diesel leak too but since I have a 99 E300 Turbodiesel I can't say for sure. However, what is wrong with the IP? Is it leaking? ULSD has a way of doing that. Mine and another person's leaked too. That guy traded his car in since it wasn't running. Well, to make a long story short, my mechanic 210OLEMOTOR bought it for a song and sent the IP out. Minor fix. O-rings and copper crush gaskets. If you would like to see if that is the problem, send it to me and I'll bring it to the local diesel shop that can tell you. Worst it costs you is shipping. Both of our cars are running just fine now. However, if it isn't just the top, you are going to have to get a new IP. Does that help you out?

You might want to call a local diesel shop and see if they can do anything about an MB IP. I don't know what they can do but I know our local shop can check it. Your ball. PM me if you want my help

TMAllison · #3 11-12-2007, 05:42 PM

First, repeat the 606 mantra with us "Always fix the fuel leaks first".

You said the GP light was on. Does it run rough when first started and then smooth out as it gets to operating temp? If so, you prob got a bad GP or relay.

A large fuel (air) leak can cause it to run very ragged or cause a no start condition. Any bubbles in the fuel lines? If so, tell us which line(s).

Any leaks on top of the IP at the delivery valves?

IP's don't go bad too often and when they do it is usually caused by owner error more often than not.

The fact the mech immediately did a compression test tells me they are not very creative....especially as you'd already had one fuel leak.

Finally, you can get a rebuilt pump from Pacific fuel Injection for ~$1,000; I'd rule everything above out first along with whatever comments others suggest before I'd go that route.

nick_russo · #4 11-12-2007, 07:05 PM

1. no leaks, think I fixed them all
2. as far as the glow plug light, I bring that up because the last time I had that light on I replaced the relay and the plugs but the light did not go off until some new wires were spliced into on of the harnesses. before that the car would stall for no reason.
3. all the fuel lines, shut off valve, crush washers have been replaced within the las 12 months
4. he says it is the IP because he thinks at least 1 cylinder it getting too much fuel and it cannot combust, thus exiting the tailpipe as smoke.

the car was running fine before I replaced the return lines, then injectors.

tanks for the offer on sending the IP to you. do you have Pacific Fuel Injection's website or number, maybe I'll give them a call

Thanks for your help,
Nick

TMAllison · #5 11-12-2007, 07:42 PM

I'm having a hard time with the pump metering different volumes of fuel unless someone has fiddled with one of the delivery valve elements since you did the DV seals a year ago. I'd spend some more time searching for a leak or bubbles again. Spray it clean and then use a bright light and a mirror to see the hidden spots.

So, is your GP light on now or not? Any CEL?

What exactly did you break when you were removing the return line?

You got new heat shields reinstalled back under ALL the new inj's right?

Dont know how scientific it is, but before pulling the pump I'd disconnect all the hard lines at the inj's and put a cup beneath each, get it primed good, empty them all and then prime again and measure volume in each. If one inj got more fuel I'd repeat the test a few times to be certain it was accurate.

Pacific Fuel Injection (650) 588-8880 Gus Pfister (Bay Area, CA)

nick_russo · #6 11-12-2007, 08:05 PM

I guess I can look for air leaks, no one has messed with the IP pump since the crush washers have been replaced.

Glow plug light does not come on until the engine is started then it lights up. CEL with PO320 I think, preglow heater. Also the shop said they pulled another code having to do with authorization (alarm I think) but they said it was a bad code and didn't have anything to do with my problem now.

This is what I broke:
while pulling the return lines off they broke right at the injectors so I needed to remove the piece of hose still attached to the injector. I took a small screwdriver to cut/pry the hose off. Well when I go to number 4 the screwdriver went into the return hole of the injector and snapped off.

When I replaced them I did change the heat shields.

I like your test idea,

TMAllison · #7 11-12-2007, 09:00 PM

PO320 is Ignition/Distributor Engine Speed Input Circuit Malfunction.

I don't have any expirience with this one. Could be related to a bad CPS?

If it's PO380 GP/Heater Circuit Malfunction you could have a bad GP, bad relay or have attempted to start it on cold GP's.

ohiomike · #8 11-27-2007, 09:33 PM

Did anyone suggest the K40 relay? Common problem. 2105400372 .

Cervan · #9 11-27-2007, 10:33 PM

is this IP electronically governed? (god i hate electronics) if it is that may be why its so damn expensive, that and its a mercedes

Sounds like air is getting into the system, and im having a hard time beliving somone messed with the internal IP settings. One thing you could do is crack the injector lines while its running, if cylinder number 1 is indeeed getting too much fuel then the others should run better. maybie his timing is off? but how is that possible?

nick_russo · #10 12-11-2007, 08:44 AM

Well, I have my answer although I'm reluctant to say.
Given the wealth of information this forum provides and the fact that no one here knows me personally I will share.

Good news, I didn't need an IP.

The bad, while changing the fuel return lines I placed a rag in the intake manifold to keep debris from getting in there (smart). When I put the crossover pipe back on I forgot to take the rag out (DUMB!) and when I started the car the rag traveled up the intake manifold starving one of the cylinders of air. This of course caused the cylinder not to fire making the car run poorly and smoke.

I share because I love and my hope is that if I can help just 1 person from making a $1400 mistake then this post was worth it.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays all

Stevo · #11 12-11-2007, 11:22 AM

Your not the first person too screw up. I'll bet we could fill up a couple of pages real quick. Thanks for sharing.

charmalu · #12 12-11-2007, 11:56 AM

HA HA HA LOL. Sounds like the surgeon leaving the sponge in the patient.

Glad to hear you got to seat of the problem, we have all done similar things we don`t want to admit to in the past. later in life it refered to
as experience.
It`s usually the little things in life that screw things up that seem like
a larger problem.

One time at work we had a truck that sat out in the back of the yard for
about a month. went out to start it and no go, checked out everything,
threw a can of eather down the intake. nothing. noticed something
blue in the intake horn. took off the top of the air cleaner and it was
packed full of blue shop towels. rats were making a nest in the air cleaner.

Have a Merry Christmas

Charlie

Skippy · #13 12-11-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_russo

Good news, I didn't need an IP.

The bad, while changing the fuel return lines I placed a rag in the intake manifold to keep debris from getting in there (smart). When I put the crossover pipe back on I forgot to take the rag out (DUMB!) and when I started the car the rag traveled up the intake manifold starving one of the cylinders of air. This of course caused the cylinder not to fire making the car run poorly and smoke.

When I read that, it made me laugh so much that the other people in the internet cafe looked at me like I was crazy

I've done stuff like that before too. Once, I did valve cover gaskets on my Lincoln Town Car, and I forgot to hook the MAP sensor back up. It took me about three hours and pulling the upper intake plenum back off to figure out why my 5.0 gasser was blowing black smoke like an old Cummins and getting single-digit gas mileage.

Phil · #14 12-11-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_russo

This is what I broke:
while pulling the return lines off they broke right at the injectors so I needed to remove the piece of hose still attached to the injector. I took a small screwdriver to cut/pry the hose off. Well when I go to number 4 the screwdriver went into the return hole of the injector and snapped off.

I'm glad its running ok now but when you broke off the screw driver in the injector did you get the piece out or is it still in there? If the piece is still in there I would get it out before it messes up the injector or gets into the cylinder and causes bigger problems.

nick_russo · #15 12-11-2007, 06:19 PM

The piece is still in the injector. When I replaced it with a new one, I confirmed that I broke it off inside the injector by rattling it.