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-   -   Engine running; no belts turning, no pulleys turning (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=211644)

kerry 01-26-2008 11:27 PM

You may want to follow Omegaman's advice on this thread. He puts the socket and breaker bar on on the nut, then hits the starter.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=150588&highlight=harmonic+balancer+failure

lietuviai 01-26-2008 11:29 PM

AFAIK, there is no rubber part. Here is an exploded view of the crank and its related parts.

http://detali.ru/cat/MB/B03015000111.0051.gif

tangofox007 01-26-2008 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesNB (Post 1744621)
I'm more inclined to go with the rubber part failure. I've had an oil leak and I've been using engine degreaser to clean things up and track it down. I'm thinking the degreaser caused the rubber part to fail, or at least I'm hoping.

So if I get the cap screws out will I be able to pul that rubber part???

There is no rubber part.

kerry 01-27-2008 12:01 AM

You need to ignore my earlier comment about rubber parts. I still have in my mind some image from this site of a large round metal object, loose on what I recall to be a crankshaft. I thought it was some kind of vibration damper or something associated with the nose of a 617 which had separated from its rubber components. Perhaps it was all a dream.

kerry 01-27-2008 12:16 AM

Well, I wasn't dreaming. There is a rubber part in there. Here's a whole thread on it. I'm linking to the page with the pictures:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=58996&highlight=vibration+damper&page=5

HOWEVER, it doesn't look like a failed rubber part can cause your problem.

tangofox007 01-27-2008 12:33 AM

That is on the damper, separate from the pulley. It's not going to cause the pulley to turn independent of the crankshaft, even if the bonding material does fail. The pulley is bolted to the balancing disc with the vibration damper sandwiched in between.

JimmyL 01-27-2008 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 1741384)
Or could be sheared keyway/ keys, I think.

Tom W

Doesn't it almost have to be the woodruff key sheared? And I don't like the chances of the groove on the crank being left in good shape either......:eek:

tangofox007 01-27-2008 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyL (Post 1744697)
Doesn't it almost have to be the woodruff key sheared?

That engine uses two dowel pins instead of a Woodruff key. See part #23 in post 17 above. (The Woodruff key shown is for the chain sprocket.)

Same concept though. If the engine runs, the only real possibility is that the pins sheared. Or they are "missing." Bad news any way you slice it.

t walgamuth 01-27-2008 11:07 AM

Actually a fairly common problem. I had a 300d na that had that happen. It required a new crank (used).

I hope it is one of the less drastic problems for you.

Tom W

JimmyL 01-27-2008 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007 (Post 1744839)
That engine uses two dowel pins instead of a Woodruff key. See part #23 in post 17 above. (The Woodruff key shown is for the chain sprocket.)

Same concept though. If the engine runs, the only real possibility is that the pins sheared. Or they are "missing." Bad news any way you slice it.

Ask me how happy I am that I'm not intimately familiar with this area.....:D
I'm just sorry that James sounds like he is gonna have to become knowledgeable about this. :(

babymog 01-27-2008 11:45 AM

No dream Kerry, it happened to my Father's Lexus, the rubber failed and it lost drvie to the serpentine belt, ... clever design that Toyota stuff.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry (Post 1744652)
You need to ignore my earlier comment about rubber parts. I still have in my mind some image from this site of a large round metal object, loose on what I recall to be a crankshaft. I thought it was some kind of vibration damper or something associated with the nose of a 617 which had separated from its rubber components. Perhaps it was all a dream.


mobetta 01-27-2008 12:05 PM

^ It's actually quite common on other cars. our Volvo is similar design.

pimpernell 01-27-2008 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007 (Post 1744839)
That engine uses two dowel pins instead of a Woodruff key. See part #23 in post 17 above. (The Woodruff key shown is for the chain sprocket.)

Same concept though. If the engine runs, the only real possibility is that the pins sheared. Or they are "missing." Bad news any way you slice it.

not knowing the exact layout of the engine, if the pulleys at the front of the crank can be removed, and those dowel pin holes are accessible, is there any possibility of drilling out the sheared off pins and replacing them with new ones? Just a thought.

kerry 01-27-2008 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pimpernell (Post 1744983)
not knowing the exact layout of the engine, if the pulleys at the front of the crank can be removed, and those dowel pin holes are accessible, is there any possibility of drilling out the sheared off pins and replacing them with new ones? Just a thought.

Not really. The dowel pins lay parallel to the length of the crankshaft with 180 degrees embedded in the crank and the other 180 degrees embedded in the balancer. If they fail, they typically destroy the groove in the crank in which they reside.

But something seems odd about James' description of his failure. Am I correct in thinking that the timing notch into which he thought he could insert a screwdriver is on the harmonic balancer. If locking the harmonic balancer will lock the crankshaft, then clearly it is not free to spin on the crank and the dowel pins must be ok. This would point to sheared bolts but he says the bolts are still tight. Something doesn't make sense to me.
The only explanation I can imagine for his description is that the crankshaft is broken behind the dowel pins.

babymog 01-27-2008 12:58 PM

My point exactly. If the bolt on the nose of the crank is tight, and turning the pully when wrenched, the nose of the crank appears to be broken off. It has happened on this forum in the past year, an SDL, '87 I believe in GA, he was trying to sell it really cheap but I couldn't get there.


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