How to get to rear sunroof drain/tube connection point
 

I think I need to start this off with a declarative statement: I fear the headliner!!
1985 300TD. The wagon. :(
Every time it rains water runs down my driver's side A-pillar, then runs to the rear floorboard. I always sop it up, but it gets under the floor insulation, and it is gonna rust my floor pan at some point.
No wonder the sunroof was caulked shut when I bought the car.
First, the drains have all been verified clear. Found a great tool at Harbor Freight for this. I have removed the front valance, mirror, sunvisors and A-pillar trim. The front drain connection is not leaking at all. But the water comes down the A-pillar, drips through onto hood latch pull and emergency brake pedal. It isn't the front windshield or any of the drains. I have seen the water flowing down the headliner to the front left A-pillar, so it is coming from the sunroof somewhere. Even small rains cause water intrusion.
So, it would seem that I need to lay eyes on that rear drain/tube connection point. Doesn't that sound reasonable at least?
Which brings me to the point of having to try and mess with the headliner without ruining it. I would love advise on that subject.
I can take the sunroof cover off, then remove the slidable sunroof portion, but can't see way back into that corner.
I'm all ears and eyes..........:ears: :freak: :ears: :freak:

Raise the hood
 

Raise the hood and check the cavity where the hood hinge goes. Good chance it is full of crap and the drain plugged.

Better chance I keep those vacuumed out all the time. OCD thing......:o:o
Thanks though CR, that happens often to folks. :)

Yall please note, I have seen the water on top of the headliner, coming from the rear direction.

I have never messed with (or up) a headliner in a MB. JimmyL, don't you have a parts car you could do a little experiment on? So you would at least know HOW it is held up...then you would only be half-blind. Just a thought.

First I have the wagon/sedan difference.
Second, Scar has been coldly delivered to the local PNP.
Third, I did mess with it a little before I hauled him off, and I ripped it! :eek:
I might have to hit PNP for some practice...... Still will have the wagon/sedan difference.

JimmyL,

I don't know if you looked at these links already, but one shows the "bows" that hold the headliner to the roof. The edges are glued to the body.
The other link is the sunroof so you can see where you have to look for the drain in the sunroof pan.:)

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=123193&M=617%2E952&GA=722%2E120315&CT=F&cat=318&SID=69&SGR=030&SGN=02

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=123193&M=617%2E952&GA=722%2E120315&CT=F&cat=318&SID=78&SGR=015&SGN=01

Thanks for the links Chad, and for your reply "elsewhere".....;)

JimmyL;

I'll check my FSM and see if it lists your model and the drain issues.

John

I ran those links and from the picture it looks like it just a simple hose stuck on a barb....or not stuck in your case.

1.What if you just opened a small neat cut in the head liner to see/feel/hook the hose back up? Then neatly sew up the cut. I know that ain't a great option, but the part about "glued around the edges"...that scared the snot outta me! I would rather have a smal neat cut as opposed to tattered edges everywhere.

2. Looking at my sunroof, manual, I can see the front drain holes. #2 is even crazier....what if you just plugged the suspect drain and hope the other three can handle the water load. It might work. If it still leaks, well, it was leaking before. Might be worth a try, use Silly Putty or similar so you can easily undo what you did! If it works, great! If it doesn't work, there is still the headliner to tear up.

Now, if you do a total trash out on the headliner.....how does a shag carpet roof sound to you?? Worked for me on a '69 Ford hippy van!

On my car I had that same leak (down drivers side A Pillar) and I thought it was the sunroof drains, cleaned them all out but they weren't even plugged. All flow well. Long time later I got a new windshield....no more leak. It was coming from the windshield seal along the top.

I dealt with the headliner a bit in my wagon, and the material is kind of rubberized. It doesn't take well to cuts. It takes less to trying to stitch it. Some kind of glue to seal the cut would be better. But pulling the glued edges isn't as bad as it sounds. On mine the glue was tacky but let me peel it away. Just be careful to not stretch the material too much. I think a hair dryer could be used to help soften the glue. 3M trim adhesive will glue it back (the same one used for the hood pad).

Sounds good.
I also appreciate the other advice above. I don't think I'm gonna cut it though. I think I will let the wife know I'm gonna borrow the garage space for a few days, pull the movable sunroof piece out, then try to visualize my options. Sunroof can be pulled in less than 15 munutes, then I guess I'll try and look back towards the drain area. I guess I'll counter punch from there. I certainly need to get a handle on this before the spring rains.....:(
There was a Euro wagon at PNP a couple months ago, and there are so many things now I wish I had gotten. Doh!

If you think the drain is clogged, I would first remove 1/4 panel trim and search for sunroof tube. I believe it runs down pillar behind rear door. Then blow compressed air in the lines. First, Open sunroof fully. Then take a coffee can full of water. Pour water in track assembly, it should leak out immediately. If not, drain is clogged. No need to remove headliner. I do this for a living in New Jersey. Havn't done a wagon in a while though. You must find end of drain of course.

His drains are clear, he thinks the rubber drain tube may have come off the nipple on the sunroof pan or the nipple is rusted through and needs repair. He needs to see that connection to know how to proceed.

I don't know how the headliner is attached in the wagon, but IIRC it's not hard to get it loose in the sedan. Just follow the FSM, or as noted above , practice on a cadaver. That said, be careful if you have the late solid-type headliner ( rather than the early perforated one). Those really seem to rot in the southern heat. The drain connections will be about 2" behind each rear corner of the sunroof. Good luck with that....

:thumbsup:


And I guess I have the later style headliner {'85} as it doesn't appear to have perforations.....

On my '84 300td, the headliner is perforation-free and is attached by simple friction/interference fit with the door trim. Pull the door trim off and you will then be able to pull the edge of the headliner outward and down to dislodge its sewn-on plastic edge that is folded-over into a little channel (similar in arrangement to how the edges of the front seat upholstery is held). Reversing the procedure is simple.

In my case, I was looking to see how to remove the roof rack, but unfortunately, you have to remove the whole sunroof assembly to do so. :mad:

Cool, that's good to know. I removed my quarter windows for rust repair and dealt with the rear area of the headliner which is glued along the roof rail. If it uses those plastic strips toward the front, that makes it easier.

I went by PNP today and pulled the headliner down in the driver's side rear on a couple of sedans and checked out the rear sunroof drain connection point. It wasn't hard at all to get the headliner down in that area, but there was also no pressure worrying about damaging anything. I did it enough to feel comfortable at least trying it on the wagon.
BTW, both of the sedan rear sunroof drain connection points were rock solid. If mine appears solid I guess I'll leave the headliner loose and wait for a rain.
Do you think it will shrink if disconnected for a while? I might have to connect it back until rain is imminent....

Have your daughter help create a rain storm with the garden hose so you can figure it out before the next rain.:)

Well, I believe it is that idiot windshield seal after all. I think that headliner leak might have been a clogged rear driver's side drain, and was a coincidental leak to the main leak.
I removed the dash today to wait for the next rain:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff104.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff107.jpg

Scary looking eh? I must say, I will never again remove the dash without removing the steering wheel first. It is very easy and quick to do, and makes it so much easier.
Anyway, with the dash off I was going to wait for the next rain and go out and sit in the car, but I just pushed on the seal right in the driver's side corner and a couple drips of water came out from there.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff109.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff108.jpg

So, I need to have this windshield resealed and have the one in the Squash replaced. {huge cracks and mucho pitting}

I could use those A/C pods....:D

Good work there JImmy!

I had great success re-sealing my windshield with a 3 dollar tube of black Silicone and a couple of plastic picnic knives. Use one knives to open up the seal and another one to scrape all the crap outta there. Compressed air, masking tape, about 1/2 an hour and your done. Inspiration furnished by T Walmuth.

Nice work Jimmy. Thanks for taking the time for pics. Are you going to take care of anything else while you have the dash off?

***I would use Butyl Sealant to seal the windshield. Silicone Sealant causes Rust by trapping corrosive moisture as it cures. If it's used between the seal and the glass, it won't cause any rust issues but it makes it harder to replace the seals later since it glues the seal to the glass.

easy solution... when the glass guys go to replace the windshield dont tell them and when they break it.. have them vacuum out the glass shards.. or just lay a drop cloth as well as a blanket on the hood and kick out the front window :)

I had my windshield and gasket replaced and the installer smacked the old windshield with a hammer to soften it up for easy removal.:) It was a little disturbing watching some guy smash my windshield out.:eek:

I had tried sealing it about a year and a half ago. Didn't work. Funny because I can't for the life of me see how water is getting past the sealant, but it is. In buckets......
I had done the vac pods the last time I had the dash off, and they are all working right now. I had used used good diaphrams though. I am gonna Mityvac each one to make sure.
Biggest thing I wanted to do was find the mouse that died in the wagon last summer. It was a month or 6 weeks that I couldn't drive the car due to the awful smell of death!!!! :grim: It was just awful.......
Wagon is in the garage, wifes van is outside in the rain. :cool:

Alright, went by Safelite today. Internet price was gonna be $181 I believe, but that doesn't include gasket. That was gonna be another $70 bucks making the total $250! :eek:
After some courteous haggling, and mentioning that I had 2 cars to do {wagon and Squash} we settled on $200 per car, which includes seal and lifetime leak guarantee. They were also familiar with the trim strip, and said some go in real easy and some can take a couple hours of messing with. They said the glass and seal themselves were easy, just the trim strip "acted up" sometimes.
I like the folks there. It is the one on Arapaho in Richardson, TX.
Wagon will be Wednesday morning and will Schedule the other one at that time. There goes all my Christmas and birthday $$$$$........:(:(
Worth it not to have Lake Wagon in the rear floor board. ;)

That's a great price. I paid $344 for OEM gasket and new windshield with the green tint strip, installed with a sealant on the pillars that required a little oven on the truck to heat before application.

What a disaster today was!!! :(:(
The wagon has a new windshield and seal in it. I'm hopeful it will remain dry next time it rains.
OK, that will about do it for the good news. :eek:
I sat there for just a shade over 4 hours. Um, that means the installation didn't go real well.
First and foremost, this particular Safelite location will never ever install another old Mercedes windshield without an OEM seal. It went that poorly. They aren't thrilled about doing another one even with the OEM seal, but they said they would.
The trim piece did not cooperate. At all! The OEM seal has all 4 corners made into it. The aftermarket seal has the lower corners but no molded corners for the top. It made for an awful time with the trim. They had it finished after about 2 1/2 hours, but I took one look and kinda lost my cool. {and I NEVER make waves} It was that bad. I told 'em it looked like Fido's Ass, and they invited me to go sit back in the waiting area some more.:o:o The lower driver's side was not even in the seal. They had a small wedge against the rain guttering holding it down "close" to the seal.
So they worked on it for about another hour and a half and it still ain't that pretty but the trim is pretty much in the seal. Pretty much......:(
Looks fine unless you really inspect closely.
I still have my no leak guarantee at least, and will definitely use an OEM seal on the Squash.

Well, it has rained a little over 6 inches in the last 5 hours :eek: and there isn't a single drop of fluid inside the wagon. {except where the rear windows were cracked! Doh}
Leak fixed it appears.....:P

Well, with the success of a new windshield and seal fixing my leaking {sunroof was sealed when I bought it :rolleyes:} it was time to see if I could get the interior back in. :eek:
Getting the dash out is always easier than putting it back in. But this is the first time I removed the steering wheel. and that sure does help.
So, looking at the carnage you wonder "will it ever look the same? Will something be wrong when it goes back in?"

Before:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff104.jpg

After:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff117.jpg

Before:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff107.jpg

After:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff120.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff119.jpg

All appears normal, and since the leak is fixed I have the driver's side rear carpet, kick panels and driver's side foot panel all reinstalled. They haven't been in the car in a long time.

BTW, anybody want to see what an awful blue dash looks like without the dashmat installed?

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...85Stuff111.jpg

It isn't just cracked but get a look at that crack/crater over the glove box.....:eek::eek:
Actually, a cracked blue dash just without the fault line would be an upgrade.