How long can diesel sit?
 

Picked up a Volvo diesel from a field, has low miles and in good shape... Slight problem is it sat untounched for 12 years with 3/4 full tank! Thanks!

Should be a god deal
 

Do you realize how cheap it was to put that 15 gallons or so in that Volvo 12 years ago. Probably little more then $10.00. And it probably is still good, though it might be contaminated with algae that can live in diesel. At the same time, it might not be contaminated. Drain a little out and I think you can tell easy enough if it is clean enough to run. Hope you can get it started!

Well, even though fuels degrade with the years, there should be no major issue burning that fuel if the water contamination is not too high...

Once I saw a guy start an old Caterpillar bulldozer that had 15+ years sitting. He just got there, installed a new electric stater (the thing had a little gas engine as a starter) with jumper cables connected to a pair of huge batteries, primed the IP, sprayed some starting fluid in the intake, and after a 30 sec glow cycle, he fired if...

The things started without a hassle. At the beginning there was some blue smoke, maybe stuck rings. But after 10 mins or so, there was no smoke and the things was running perfectly...

Please note he just got there and started it. No fresh fuel or oils added to the dozer.

I know some might say this is because its a Cat, but come on, Volvo are one hell of a piece of engineering as well... ;)

Good Story
 

But never use glow plugs along with starting fluid. Great way to wreck stuff. But it is not even possible on a "cat" engine, as they don't use glow plugs.

I've heard starting fluid is no good under any circumstance. Its more like a quick once in a lifetime solution for an emergency. ;)

If they don't have glow plugs, how come you need to "glow" them for about 30 seconds? It was an early 70's D6C bulldozer :confused:

Here is how you glow an old "cat"
 

They did have a glow procedure Juan, but not with glow plugs. Glowing meant you fired up the gas pony engine and glowed that exhaust into the intake manifold. Then when they were running good, the pony that is, you pulled the choke back on it and pull in a batch of raw gasoline, another aid too starting those old beasts on a cold, cold morning.

Wow, great piece of info! I'm not surprised the guy almost emptied the starting fluid bottle in the intake manifold :eek: Thanks for sharing the knowledge!

So, how long do you think diesel can sit?

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the volvo diesel of the 80's a 6cyl version of the 4cyl VW diesel?

No, not really. Yes they are a 6 cly version of the VW 1.6 NA, and a real PITA. Not in the same league with Mercedes, or , for that matter, the VW 4 banger (which ain't anything special). I mean, how good can a looong alloy head be?

And what's so good about having a timing belt up against the firewall?

Rick

I found 2500 gallons....yes, I am not kidding....of heating oil in a tank in the basement of my office building. I assumed and the previous owner assumed the tank was empty, but it was full!

So I wanted only to get the tank out of my building so I could rent the space for storage.

So I called the fuel sales places and asked if they wanted to buy it. They asked how long it had set and I said....as near as i can tell maybe 40 years. When they stopped laughing they said I needed to call a service that takes away dangerous liquids.

I said.....&*%$@#* That.

After doing some basic research I found the the difference between #1 heating oil and diesel is about nil.

So we took a sample off the bottom and found it clear. (Cloudy appearance means the presence of bacteria). So next thing was to find a way to pump it out and burn it in my truck and three diesel cars!

HOT DAMN!

A demolition contractor friend offered a fuel pump (marked farm bureau co op), I paid a handy man to hook it up and sit it out in the alley next to my buidling, I rigged up a double filter and soon I had pulled up the 91 sdl and filled the tank. I took a trip on the fuel and the car never missed a beat!

Visions of three years supply of cheap (free) fuel floated above my head....Man, I am in heaven!.....I must be the luckiest SOB alive (I thought).

The next morning as I was coming in to work I discovered a small crowd outside my building looking at my pump......the city engineer, the fire inspector, and the federal marshalls who guard the federal court building next door.

Heee hee!

It turns out the marshalls smelled the fuel oil and immediately assumed it was a terrorist threat. (A few years before someone, still at large, had tried to blow up our courthouse which is located on the other side of my building with a pickup truck loaded with fertilizer and, you guessed it, fuel oil)

So the next day I get a terse letter from the city engineer ordering me to have the pump, the tank and the fuel all out in three days! (Never mind that that was completely impossible). So I asked her for a little more time and she gave me ten days on the fuel and pump and 45 days on the tank, IIRC.

&*%$#@!!! Drat, my cheap fuel plan is up in smoke!

So my contractor friend (the one who loaned me the pump) bought the fuel for $.75 /gallon (at that time the price was 'bout $2 at the pump).

And that was about enough to pay a contractor to come and cut up the tank and remove it, so I guess it didn't work out all that bad in the end.

Damnnn, though, three years worth of free fuel would have been sweet!

(I would still be using it!)

Tom W

Thanks, is there a way to test for alge? or just pump some out and look?

Yeah this Volvo has a 2.4L inline 6 from VW, It's A LOT different from the MB's. The engineers at Benz seriously need to pat themselves on the back!

I'd drain the fuel out of the tank. The main concern you have now is getting the car started. I'd recommend changing all the fluids (fuel, oil, trans fluid, diff oil, coolant ect).
Also, when a gas engine has set for a while, it's a good idea the pull the plugs and squirt some Marvel Mystery Oil or transmission fluid into the cylinders to make sure the pistons are free. I don't know if that is recommended for Diesel engines. Maybe someone else can chime in.

A more direct answer to your question, as Diesel Fuel ages:
1. Water can get into the tank from condensation
2. The lighter hydrocarbons can evaporate and make starting harder and gum up the works.
3. As mentioned above, bugs can grow in Diesel Fuel. If growth is prevent, the fuel will be cloudy.
On a final note, all diesel fuel is really old. Like dinosaur old, lol. Had to through that in.

Who the hell told you that?!! All sorts of cat engines use glowplugs and the pony motor was used to rotate the crankshaft and thats it! I'm told by an old Cat mechanic I work with in really cold climates they used to pull the compression release and let the pony motor crank the engine over for a while before letting it start.

Years ago, I had an old outboard boat motor from the early fifties. When you were starting it, it had a compression release valve that would release some of the pressure until it got going. I was a teenager back then and I remember thinking, wow, cool design.

You know, I wish my Honda outboard had something like that. I know the newer ones do, but this ours is like a '94 or something. It's a 4-stroke 25hp 3-cylinder pull starter. Half the people I know can't start the darn thing cold :rolleyes:. However, I can start the backup motor, the Mercury 2-stroke 25hp 2-cylinder pull starter, with one arm...

I guess you didn't read my long post. Cloudy.

Tom W

I would definately not dump the fuel without checking it for bacteria. It is a smelly messy job and what do you do with the fuel after you drain it? It is much more likely to be good than bad, IMHO.

Even it it does have bacteria, you can treat it with biocide and run it. After a treatment the dead bacteria will flow through the filter and burn off.

About the only reason to drain a tank imho is if you are changing the tank (a very unlikely thing).

Tom W

I still say drain the tank. That will eliminate bad fuel as a variable and also get any gunk out of the tank. If the fuel is bad you'll end up chasing your tail trying to get it started and running smoothly. If there is water in the fuel you'll be able to see it settle out in the bottom of the container. I had a Mazda (back when they were good and made in Japan) and the owners manual recommended draining the fuel tank once a year. Of course I'd run it down to Empty before draining it. It was easy because it had a plug in the bottom like the oil pan.
Drain it and save yourself some headaches.
As for disposal you can:
1. Filter it and add it back to the tank a couple of gallons at a time once it's running fine.
2. Use it for cleaning parts.
3. An oil disposal place should take it.

the advice you got for your gasser mazda is not good advice for a diesel.

Diesel hardly ever goes bad. If it is contaminated with bacteria a treatment with biocide will kill it and render the dead carcasses harmless.

Even if you do drain out water and bacteria contaminated fuel you will still need to treat the tank with biocide to kill the residue that will not drain out easily.

You are not being helpful in stubbornly continue to recommend this useless action.

Tom W

Stubborn? Yes. Bad advice? I doubt it.
Twelve years is a long time to let anything sit. I don't care if it's gasoline, Diesel Fuel, or asphalt. Drain all the fluids, including the fuel. Eliminate it as a variable. What is it going to hurt?
Surely you know bacteria and algae aren't the same creatures? Nonetheless, if there is or was crap growing in the tank, dead or alive, it will clog the filters. If there were organisms growing in it, surely you realize that has changed the composition of the fuel?
Even if there's no sediment, rust, crust, gunk or water and the fuel is crystal clean, what was put in it last? DF1? DF2? Who knows? It can make a difference.
Drain the tank and clean it. Worst case, it took a couple hours and if it doesn't fire up, you know the fuel's not the problem.
I can't believe you think draining the fuel is "useless". I believe it is common sense.

Do you even own a diesel?

Tom W

The bacteria "algae' that grows in the diesel tank is in the boundry layer between the fuel and the water. Doesn't change the fuel.

Diesel fuel will oxydize, it does change the fuel, but it is still combustible in a diesel engine. Will it yield full rated BTU? No. It will probably burn less efficiently so you'll have less mileage and power, probably not noticable. It will not do any damage to the engine.

You can pump a little fuel from the bottom of the tank (or siphon) to see if there's water in it, let it settle for a while in a clear container and you'll see it if it's there.

If it doesn't have water in it, don't worry about it. Filters are important though, I recommend carrying a filter or two until you're sure it won't be fouling filters.

Diesel fuel age....unknown.....
 

After all, it already has a few million years of aging start on it. "New" purchase of SDL had 10 year old diesel in it. Added lucas fuel injection cleaner to it and fired right up. Smoked and clattered a bit but cleared up after driving a while.

Regards

Run-Em

Of course.
Moreover, I did petroleum research for a number of years, including Diesel fuel, gasoline, fuel additives.
It has taken me a long time to learn this but if you are starting something; do it right. If something is worth doing, it is worth doing right.
I'm not saying the fuel won't burn; I'm saying change the fuel and clean the tank.

That would be fine if you had a good place to dispose of it. Personally I have not had any luck with finding a legal environmentally responsible place and method to dispose of the fuel.

Where did you do this research?

Tom W

I had 265gallons pumped out of one of my motorhomes, bad algae problem, the truck service place pumped it into empty 55gallon containers and used it for heat.

Any place that takes old paint should take fuel. Ultimately, it's burned in cement kilns, or used to boil water to turn turbines. The tough stuff to get rid of are the chlorinated hydrocarbons like chlroform, methylene chloride and pesticides.
I was a chemist at a private lab that had contracts with oil companies, engine manufacturers and engine component manufacturers, and the Federal Government.
Later I went into clinical chemistry and then organic chemistry. About 8 years ago I made a radical career change. Now chemistry is just a hobby. (extracting essential oils from plants, making environmentally friendly pesticides and wood preservatives, making soap and a couple other Skunkworks Projects and keeping up with current research).

I say burn it. What's it going to do in the worst case scenario? Plug up some filters.
If I recall correctly, that Volvo engine has problems delivering enough oil to the head.

Exactly.

Tom W

The worst that could happen is you'll ruin the injector pump, injectors, cylinders and pistons.
Not as bad but still a pain, it won't start and you'll be chasing your tail. Or you'll be running through fuel filters.
Bacteria and fungi metabolize the fuel and change the composition. One of the byproducts is organic acids which attack metals. If you think microbes don't "eat" petroleum, why do they use them to help clean up oil spills?
Even if you kill everything with biocide, the dead bugs are still in the tank and will goo up the works.
Not to mention a layer of water in the tank isn't good for anything.
Save yourself a lot of headaches and clean the tank.

Don't shoot me, I'm new to diesels (I don't even take possession of my car until Thursday!), but it looks like the discussion is going back-and-forth replete with opinion and a paucity of evidence. It is an interesting problem and I think an important one so I did a Google search to see what other folks think.

I can't speak to the veracity of these links but I think they offer additional insight.

http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/machinery-manufacturing/401946-1.html

http://theepicenter.com/tow021799.html



Bot

Old diesel would probably be bad to have in contact with the fuel system components for a long time, but it's already done that.

You're just considering what effects having it in contact with that system for another couple of days or so as you run it out. No significant contact time.

If there's water in the fuel tank, get it out. If there's "algae" in the fuel tank, get it out. If not, the filter will take care of particulates, keep spares around, and you'll be diluting the fuel with fresh fuel as you drive and fuel the car.

Best thing is to get it running and get fresh fluids in the engine. The oil pH is more important than the fuel pH, and the coolant pH + SCAs is important, the fuel is consumable.

You're getting "wrapped around the axle" on this fuel thing, step back and take a broader look.

Never use gasoline-engine type starter fluid, it's too volatile - the best starter fluid for diesels is WD40.
The Yanmar 2QM15 diesel in my sailboat doesn't have glow plugs and it starts quite easily.

Both those links appear to be sponsered by people selling stabilizers. I used fuel in my car that had been sitting in a tank in the basement of my building for at least 40 years best estimate, with no ill effect.

Pull a little off the bottom to be sure it is not clouded with bacterial growth or full of dirt and go for it if it is clear.

Tom W

ru u sure?
 

1. buddies rabbit PU just like yours (NA) hauled 2 grown men, a sizable toolbox,
race fuel, a cooler and a 500cc roadracer for 2 seasons on 200 mile trips though the california desert @ 75MPH.

for a different point of view: my 80 jetta gets 70 MPG.
not bad for pseudodiesels!

2. ask the finns, one of which is pushing 500 HP with his (i believe OM606)

life is not always as it seems!

I would be willing to bet that the fuel will be just fine. I've burned fuel so old it was probably pumped out of the ground using a steam engine with no trouble whatsoever. If you can start the engine on it, burn out about 10 gallons, fill up the thank and then change the fuel filter.

As for the 2,500 gallons in the storage tank, it would have been wise to use a more subtle method of pumping it into your vehicles. You didn't need to meter it, so you could have used a hand pump or an electric pump like the contractors use on the tanks in the back of their pickups to fuel construction and farm equipment. Oh well, hindsight is always 20 20.

ok,
here's what I would do.
get a good gallon container and fit 2 5/16" fuel lines in it.
disconnect your fuel lines from the tank lines in the engine compartment, and test out the car from that. after you have the vehicle running right, try the fuel in the tank.
this way you are not trying to figure out what's in the tank vs. just getting the car running.

I dunno, if we're talking single malt scotch, I'd say 12 years is still a little young. :)

When I revived my 85 300D I drove on 10 year old fuel for the first 300 miles. The tank was completely full so there was little room for algae to start growing. Fuel filters are fine too.

My SDL had 7 year old fuel in it by the time I got the motor rebuilt. I through in some biocide and it drove just fine. Almost a full tank too!

This thread's more than a year old! Perhaps OP will post a follow-up, though, and let us know how things panned out.

How long can a thread sit before it becomes stale?

LOL this thread needs some biocide.

After that it should flow easily through the moderator filter for combustion. Might want to pop some cetane booster in though.

Oh, I guess there's no reason to tell him to be careful. One of the posts on the first page say's not to worry because old Volvo's are tough. Unfortunately that is not true. The closest VW/Audi group engine to the 6 cyl Volvo would be the 5 cylinder diesel like I had in my Audi 5000. They're rather delicate. I'd take every precaution if trying to revive one. It would also have a 10 year old + timing belt and water pump seals. IMO, starting it up and driving it is an accident waiting to happen.