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  #1  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:22 PM
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Got my injectors from the shop, engine nails the same...

I pull my injectors this morning and took them to the bosh diesel shop. well all my injectors were fine. the spray patterns, and the pop pressure were ok. two of the injectors were at 138 bar, one was at 136, and the rest at 135.

I knew then that the injectors were not causing the nailing problem on the om 606.962. I explain to the mechanic what i am experiencing with the car. I told him how quiet and smooth the engine was when you first started the car in the morning, however after a minute or two the glow plug cycle ended. and the engine started nailing.

He asked me if i had worked on the head of the engine, and I told him that the previous owner had. then he went on telling me about a bulletin that mercedes had put out. something to do with cold cylinders, after some one head work on the head, and cold cylinders causing the noise. he suggested that I power every glow plug individually to determine which cylinder was causing the noise, and after determining witch cylinder was bad he could lower the pop pressure of that particular injector, allowing more fuel, and by allowing more fuel, one would raise the temperature of that cylinder, I disconnected the connector for the glow plugs, jumped each glow plug directly to the battery and didn't had a significant change on the nailing sound?

Are all the cylinders colder than what they should be, or the nailing sound has nothing to do with this?

Why does it run quiet in the morning when is cold and like @#%^ after the glow plug cycle?

Does anyone know of any bulletin about head work on this engine?

And if temperature is the problem, can it be solve with a warmer thermostat?
Thanks.
1999 E300 151000 miles.


Last edited by ramtony; 02-28-2008 at 09:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:32 PM
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I'm not aware of any bulletin as you describe although it may exist.

I would think compression would raise your cyl temp more efficinetly than water temp. Have you done a compression test?

Using a mech's stethoscope you should be able to hear which cyl is knocking easily enough, you may even be able to feel it; or crack open the metal fuel lines at the IP one at a time to the point of leaking and observe which affects knocking the most.

Have the delivery valves been done recently?
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2008, 07:11 PM
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ran the car for a few miles, and now it's leaking fuel in all of the injectors lots of it, is 30 ft/lbs the right torque for the injectors? thats hardly anything. I will take them out tomorrow again.
TMallison not sure if the delivery valves were done recently. all do I think that will be my next step. I will do some research on doing a compression test. as far as the noise. it sounds like every cylinder is making the nailing sound. I probably up load a recording of it to see if someone can tell me if it is normal. all do i don't think it is.
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:46 PM
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Injection Nozzles (Injectors) are 40 Nm

Injection Pipes (metal lines) retaining nuts have been increased from 11 Nm to 23 Nm

Do you live around the Bakersfield, CA area? I think that I had the misfortune of getting some crappy fuel around here. I used a can of diesel purge and it cleaned the injection system right up. I ran the car on the fuel tank and again, it reacted just like you're describing. So then I put a can of Lubro-Moly Diesel Hi-Test into a full tank of fuel. That helped somewhat, so without refueling, I put another can of Hi-Test in the same tank of fuel along with a cup of Power Service SlimeX. Problem has cleared up, but the cruise and idle RPMs are a little rough. I plan of retesting the fuel system using a Mity-Vac, to try to find any leaks in the system. I suspect that there are some flow issues from the tank, and possibly the lift pump.

Give us a heads up if you find your problem.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2008, 10:14 PM
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If you think you got bad fuel check for water in your filter. If you find water, drain your tank. You don't want to be running water through your IP!!
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2008, 11:55 PM
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Do some searches on the causes of nailing. I believe that one of the causes can be late IP timing.
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  #7  
Old 02-29-2008, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramtony View Post
ran the car for a few miles, and now it's leaking fuel in all of the injectors lots of it, is 30 ft/lbs the right torque for the injectors? thats hardly anything. I will take them out tomorrow again.
TMallison not sure if the delivery valves were done recently. all do I think that will be my next step. I will do some research on doing a compression test. as far as the noise. it sounds like every cylinder is making the nailing sound. I probably up load a recording of it to see if someone can tell me if it is normal. all do i don't think it is.
If you reused the cloth barided injector return lines they are probably what is leaking? After 9-10 years the rubber hose hidden inside the barided material deterioates.

Also do a search on the DV seal job. It is a litle techincal. If you need a write up PM me and I'll send you one i wrote for another member who needed help.
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  #8  
Old 02-29-2008, 12:48 AM
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thanks for all the replies, how can one determine if the timing in the pump is a litle late?
and if that was the case why does it sound perfect when you first start the engine.?
I did used the old returnd lines but there only 3 months old. I'm taking the injectors out tomorrow to make sure everything is clean and the heatshields are ok. I did see a litle bit of smoke coming out of the injector # 1 and #3 it seems that 30 ft/lbs is a litle low for this.

30 ft/lbs is preaty close to 40 nm right.
99 E300 151K
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  #9  
Old 02-29-2008, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramtony View Post
I did see a litle bit of smoke coming out of the injector # 1 and #3 it seems that 30 ft/lbs is a litle low for this.

30 ft/lbs is preaty close to 40 nm right.
99 E300 151K
Should be no fumes present.

Your torque conversion is correct.
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09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)
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  #10  
Old 02-29-2008, 04:36 AM
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Regarding the fuel hose, even when I'd just put some hose on 2-3 months prior, when I had to remove one and reinstall it, it leaked.
I ended up having to shorten the section that I'd pulled loose, because it wouldn't seal again on the portion that had been on the barb previously.
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2008, 02:04 PM
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I had the exact same problem with my '91 350SD. Start the car ice cold, for the first two minutes so silent and smooth running almost like a gasoline engine. Then a slow steady progressive drop into non-stop continuos nailing. Nicest sounding engine turns into the worst sounding engine ever diesl or gasoline. Drive the car and it's gone, return to idle, back with a vengence, ping! ping! ping!. Removed the old injectors, put in new ones, no improvement whatsoever, take them all out have them pop tested, all checked out fine, reinstall, same nailing. Suggestion to try diesel purge, wow impressive stuff, so long as diesel purge is running through the system, silent running no nailing whatsoever. Beautiful silent even idle. Connect back to regular diesel fuel, non stop nailing. Non stop only at idle, when the RPM's were increased or by driving the car all nailing would leave. Spent hours reading every nailing post, same suggestions repeated over and over again, pop testing, injectors, diesel purge. Then searched all Mercedes forums, found a one line solution, add one quart Canola, Corn or Peanut oil to one tank of regular diesel fuel. Add prior to filling up with fuel to allow mixing. After a 20 minute trip, all nailing gone, not sometimes or occasionally gone, gone forever. Fixed! It apparently causes no problem with fuel gelling because it such a small amount. I'm in upstate New York, routinely goes below zero, has never caused a problem with cold weather starting. I don't know if it will work for you, but it cured my problem.


'87 560SL 150,000
'94 SL500 40,000
'91 350SDL 514,000 (canola oil additive to stop nailing vehicle)
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2008, 02:26 PM
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I really have to wonder if it isn't an injection timing problem on jcciem's car. I'm not sure on that, but it sounds like a possibility.
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2008, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramtony View Post
thanks for all the replies, how can one determine if the timing in the pump is a litle late?
and if that was the case why does it sound perfect when you first start the engine.?
I did used the old returnd lines but there only 3 months old. I'm taking the injectors out tomorrow to make sure everything is clean and the heatshields are ok. I did see a litle bit of smoke coming out of the injector # 1 and #3 it seems that 30 ft/lbs is a litle low for this.

30 ft/lbs is preaty close to 40 nm right.
99 E300 151K
I did the delivery valve seals on my 96 e300d, and ended up with similar results. Prior to the job, engine was quiet at idle, but after I did the job, it sounded like a diesel...with minor clacking. No problems with smoke, power, performance or sounds at highway speed, just made a sewing machine sound at idle, or when driving about 15 mph and taking your foot off the throttle. The one thing I did notice was the fact that when the engine is started from dead cold, the sewing machine sound will not be present while the glow plugs are engaged. Once the after glow process was finished, the sewing machine sound is immediately noticed. I have a scanguage attached, and from a cold start, the afterglow will be activated for approximately 1-2 minutes. The scanguage will indicate a voltage of about 11.8 while the afterglow process is operational, and then jumps to 13.6 when the process disengages. When I first did the delivery valve job, I did not change out the copper crush washers. After driving the car for about 400 miles, I redid the delivery valve job, only this time changing out the copper crush washers. The nailing at idle is gone, and has not returned. It is my thought that when I first did the job without changing out the crush washers, that too much fuel was getting into the engine, and as long as the glow plugs were activated, it did not cause a problem. As soon as the glow plugs disengaged, this extra fuel caused the nailing. This is only my opinion, and I have no proof to back it up. __________________
96 E300d
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2008, 02:30 PM
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Are you using synthetic oil? If not try it and let it go thru at least one change and see how it goes. I had a similar issue with my 84D. I replaced the injectors but still had a bit of nailing. Switched to syn and never looked back.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2008, 02:45 PM
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Nailing(gone)

JCCIEM,

You have not had to repeat the "Treatment" and the results are permanent?

How many tanks of fuel have you been through since then?

Are you fueling with ULSD? (Who is the Retailer? Who is the local Jobber?)

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