about lovely craft - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

hoborobot69 · #1 03-01-2008, 12:57 PM

a buddy of mine with a slick 73 220D called me yestarday and asked my opinion about love crafting his machine.. ive read in forums here that it might not be the best idea.. the dude at love craft in portland quoted him 400 dollars to do a "conversion" that would hook up an additional existing tank that my friend owns to a two tank system.. after reading love craft it seems like they are set on one tanks which seems naively californian. (pardon me state of jefferson) he wants me to go check it out with him, which i will but will also sway him to just doing whatever he needs himself!

seriously it would take an electric three switch valve, some hosing, a water heater element, and another inline filter to mimic lovely's "conversion"!

understood that SVO isnt too swell for an engine due to more free fatty acids acting as abraisives, but someone clue me in on some factual reasons why love craft is a sham. I run biodiesel that I make through my 300D and aside from more frequent filter changes its fine (so far). I dont see the point in paying for some "conversion" when i know i can do this for him..

jshadows · #2 03-01-2008, 01:01 PM

try using the search function on this forum. You will find endless amounts of fodder on why LoveCraft (aka love crap) results in a premature death for the engine.

pizzachef · #3 03-01-2008, 06:37 PM

Its only my opinion, but I think someone who wants to run Vo should install or at least be involved with the installation of the components. Because most mechanics won't be able to diagnose problems if they arise, the owner should have a pretty good understanding of the system.

Now with that out of the way, the lovecraft system you're describing would provide a water heater element for heating the oil (is it a 12v water heater element?) The oil should be heated to around 160 deg F (that magic number has been discussed/debated all over the VO forums) and electric heat by itself isn't an efficient way of getting the oil there. The coolant of an up-to-temp car is around 190 deg F, the heat is reliable and is plentiful, so that's why lots of people use coolant based systems for primarily heating the oil. Also, you don't over burden the alternator.

If your friend already has a tank (I'm assuming it has a heated pickup, and the material is important, aluminum is generally accepted as the better choice, stainless ok, mild steel is not recommended) he can get a flat plate heat exchanger, two valves, and a coolant based heater from frybrid (my recommendation) or greasecar or plantdrive (i can't personally speak for these but I've read that they're good) for a few hundred dollars...probably more than $400. There's always other expenses like hosing and switches and gauges.

The larger penalties of running oil that's not heated adequately are a ruined injector pump (costly), and inadequate atomization of the fuel when its sprayed into the cylinder, coating the walls with liquid VO which can get by the rings and polymerize the engine lubricating oil, turning it into sludge...you can imagine the ramifications of that.

blackestate · #4 03-01-2008, 08:32 PM

I built mine from the info pop web site help. And it works well. have been running it for 2+ years on the MB and on an old ford truck
The system has to work but does not have to be expensive.

Biodiesel300TD · #5 03-02-2008, 11:49 AM

Run away from LoveCarft. They're conversions are quick, cheap, and simple. Which is nice in the short term. But in the long term the lack of heating is a huge problem. The biggest issue with they're conversions is the fact that you are starting the car on cold veg oil. This is the WORST thing you can do for the engine. They claim that you can do this in the MBs because the fuel is sprayed over the glowplugs which heats the veg oil and makes it burn properly. My argument to that is if you have cold veg oil in the system it isn't going to spray properly out of the injectors becuase it is too thick. This is a huge problem. If the injectors aren't spraying correctly you are going to destroy the engine in short order.
Grease Works is in Corvallis, which isn't too far away from Portland and they do conversions, and they do them well. They have conversions that have been on the road for years and years.
I agree with pizzachef if you install the system yourself you are going to be able to troubleshoot it. Whereas most mechanics won't know what to do with it.

latitude500 · #6 03-02-2008, 01:51 PM

Tell you friend that he should get a greasecar kit. (greasecar.com) we have been installing them professionally for some time. Great kits. I had one installed on my 98 jetta and removed it to place it on my 87 300sdl.

You MUST have a kit that can get the oil to at least 160 degrees. You looking at temps between 160 to 180 degrees. Stay away from love craft, and golden fuel systems.

Yes, your car will work for a short time on these systems, but your looking at the long run. You want to keep your car on the road as long as you can.

In short don't go cheap, because you want have a car for long.

Good luck,

hoborobot69 · #7 03-02-2008, 05:24 PM

thanks all, yes i discussed this with him.. it being much easier for him and i to install it so that we could diagnose problems ourself. he leans towards the crafty lovers.. i think that the name and brand tend to sway people towards letting people jack thier cars around, not cool. as far as kits go, it can be done without one, with cheaper hose, with a coolant heaterelement, with elbow grease and some cussin. i apprieciate the input

so back to a major question.. what is it about love craft that is failing the vehicle? from the images of thier kits they apear to be overpriced fuel filters... i cant see this destroying an engine... i can see some schmuck not washing his own biodiesel and allowing glycerine into his feul system..

but will somone name the flaw of love craft? or is it just that they are making a hack of money on the idea of wvo? its an attractive idea but its not worth it unless its done by you. only you will realize how much of a commitment it is when the soles of your shoes squeak out fry oil every time you step

Biodiesel300TD · #8 03-02-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoborobot69

so back to a major question.. what is it about love craft that is failing the vehicle? from the images of thier kits they apear to be overpriced fuel filters... i cant see this destroying an engine... i can see some schmuck not washing his own biodiesel and allowing glycerine into his feul system..

Their systems are supposed to be used with veggie oil. Biodiesel is something different, and can be run with no modifications to the engine or fuel system. Runnning veggie oil can't be done without modifications. For veggie oil to burn properly it must be at temps of atleast 160F. Most folks accomplish this with combos of coolant and electric heaters in the engine bay. The Love Craft conversions are basically a glorified coolant heated fuel filter. Since it is heated with the engine coolant the filter temp is reliant on the coolant temp. So on a cold morning it take 10-15 minutes for the coolant to get up to temp which means that the filter takes atleast that long to get warm. So like I said previously the LC conversions are setup to start up cold veggie oil.
When high enough temps aren't acheived you end up gumming up the IP, the injectors, and the cylinder walls with veggie oil. When the piston rings get sticky with unburned veggie oil the veggie oil can start getting into the motor oil. This can cause the motor oil to polymerize, turns in to goo. Which will destroy the engine in no time.

marybeth · #9 03-03-2008, 01:03 AM

DO NOT go to Lovecraft!!! Best save the $400 and have him run the MB over a cliff. At least he will have saved $400.

Go with www.greasecar.com or www.frybrid.com or www.roverhybrids.com -any of the REAL converters of WVO not the hack Lovecraft.

Check out any forum from infopop to greasecar and your friend will find nothing but horror stories with Lovecaft "conversations". The only place you will find postive comments about Lovecraft is on their website by customers who are not yet riding in a tow truck pulling their MB due to a destroyed engine.

Friends do not let friends take their MBs to Lovecraft

pizzachef · #10 03-03-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoborobot69

..what is it about love craft that is failing the vehicle?...

It allows the engine to run on cold VO (less than 160 deg F). Oil this cold is too thick to be injected properly and can remain unburnt on the cylinder walls, get past the rings and into the engine oil. Then the catastrophic part happens.

#11 03-03-2008, 08:47 AM

Any "conversion" that needs to use an electric lift pump should be avoided entirely.

bgkast · #12 03-03-2008, 03:03 PM

I can't find the link, but a year or so back I read about somebody who was doing some repairs to a Love Craft "converted" car and found that a power drill had been used to poke holes in the fuel filter to allow the thick veg to flow through. That about sums up the quality of the work they do.

patbob · #13 03-04-2008, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoborobot69

but will somone name the flaw of love craft? or is it just that they are making a hack of money on the idea of wvo? its an attractive idea but its not worth it unless its done by you.

I've read agriculture studies where they looked at the long and short term aspects of using unheated veg oil in diesel engines (in theire case, tractors). The conclusion was that it didn't do harm in the short term and small doses, but would cause measurable engine damage if used long term.

The folks that do the veg oil thing, and have done it long term without causing significant damage to their engines, swear by their two-tank systems that preheat the oil (and get the engine up to operating temp) prior to even trying to run the engine on it. They may not have the only system that is safe for the engine, but there's enough evidence to support the claims that their system is.

Lovecraft's systems are somewhere between these two systems. The question is.. are they close enough to the known-safe systems or not?

RichC · #14 03-04-2008, 06:55 AM

.

Check out blending

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9751014871

Basically you add some thinner to vegetable oil.
Like diesel, regular unleaded gas, or kerosene.

Thanks
Have Fun !
RichC

.

MWatts · #15 03-04-2008, 08:11 AM

LoveCraft seems like a cheap alternative for WARM climates only. They are HQ'd in LA, so it doesn't get very cold there. I have no first hand experience with their installations, but drilling holes in the filter to let veg oil flow thru seems suspect to me

From all the reading I have done, if I were to convert my vehicle I would go with Frybrid. They have the best kit IMHO. From the baffles in their custom designed fuel tanks, to the Hose In Hose heated fuel lines, to their superior solenoid valves, to their microcomputer....everything seems superior abt their setup. Of course they are the most expensive, @ $1795 a pop.

That being said, I am still becoming educated on what the possible ill effects are even with an above average 2-tank system. I have been leaning towards biodiesel more lately, since it requires no vehicle modification. You can still brew it at home, its still vegetable oil based, and the only thing you would need to consider is gelling at low temps if you live in a cold climate, but like the previous poster said, you can blend.

Good Luck !