ok, its a 1992 300D love this carto death. it has 289,000 miles on it, did the head at about 270,000 miles. rebuilt the injectors they were worn. i tried to adjust the timnig appropiately i wanna say 13* BTDC i think gota check. i locked downt he pump b4 all the work and everyhting. but in the summer time the car runs hot hot going up hills, and in the winter now when i start it up in the morning it smokes like crazy and you can put your foot to the floor puullin out onto the road and you still wont accelerate. also on initail start up idle is smooth about 10 seconds later it misses like crazy and smokes and until you rev it up it will continue to miss. is the injection pump in need of a rebuild?? or which way should i turn pump to adjust is the hot summer running too far advanced or retarded??
thanks in advance guys
john

I wouldn't touch the IP until ensuring the glow system is up to snuff. Sounds like you have a lazy glow plug or two if it's fine for a few seconds after a cold start then goes rough.

I haven't heard of IP timing affecting engine temperature.

Sixto
87 300D

yeah i replaced all the plugs bout a year ago and pulled them all yesterday checked them. but the light will go off about 9 seconds even when its 25 deg out but even tho the light is out the plugs are still getting power. but still rough missing idle. what would the light going off so soon mean? and what should the timing be?

The relay determines how long you should wait to engage the starter, more or less based on a temp sensor inside the relay. The relay separately determines how long to energize the glow plugs. After the light goes out, the glow plugs burn for a prescribed period or until the starter engages. On later models like your car, the glow plugs continue to burn with the engine running. I don't know if they glow while the engine is cranking. I don't know if this afterglow period is a fixed time interval or related to temperature.

IIRC, the IP timing reference is something like 14* ATDC +/1 0.5*. The actual start of delivery spec is something like 24* BTDC but you need special equipment to measure that way. The factory tool to check IP timing with the engine running uses the RIV (reference) method.

Sixto
87 300D

Until the key is released from the "start" position.

The light going out is the "ready to start" indication. Meaning that the plugs have (in theory) been energized long enough to allow a start given the current ambient temperature.

The starting/smoking problem sounds to me like it could be low compression in a cylinder. I would suspect you are hitting on all cylinders during the after glow period, then when the plugs turn off the low compression cylinder is missing until the engine builds up some heat.

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1985 300D 170k

Please elaborate on how you adjusted the timing and where the figure of 13° BTDC came from?

Did you utilize the timing unit with the "A-B" lights on it? I don't believe that you can adjust IP timing without that unit on the 602.

when we had the injectors rebuilt and the head shaved bout maybe a year ago because the head gasket let go in the back. after we installed everything the car would knock loud and the guy siad injectors were gonna be loud for a lil bit, thinking that i didnt lock it down enough with that tool. so the car was knocking too loud for my liking so i retarded the pump a little loosened the screws and lowere ther pump. knock went away and i was happy at the time. i do not have the tools to properly time the car i know that i am just basing it off of sound and performance right now. nobody in my area wanst to do the timing or cant. i gave it to one guy and he said he put a light on the cam inside the pump and i got him in a lie bc the plug wasnt even touched i was very angry at this. now on start up the car fires up and after 9 seconds the car will beign to miss and wont get out of its own way. but if you start it up and rev it past 3000K for a seocnd it all clears up. i was thinking the timing is way off now maybe?? i dont think its low comp in one cylinder but i could check it i guess with the compresion tester i have for diesels. but no blow by at all so i wanna rule that out maybe? fuel filter is new, air is new, turbo original. the car will smoke also at idle, do the injection pumps go on these things at this mileage? oo and again in the summer the car runs really hot up hills w/o AC on or anything even on highway. ive replaced the radiator, thermostat, cool fan, clucth, belt, everyhting. did i put head on wrong? im not loosing any anit freeze. i really think the timing is way off. can too fsr retarded or advanced timing create hot running conditions?
im hope im explinaing it properly i appreciate the help. let me know if i left anything out
john

Timing too advanced would tend to build more heat I would think. But heavier than normal knocking noises or the diesel knock should also be pretty noticable at the same time in my opinion. What also flickered through my mind was what retarded timing could do. I was thinking with much more fuel required present to burn for the same amount of energy out of the engine. Maybe the excess fuel was not converted to energy. Instead with more residual heat left behind. Does your fuel consumption seem normal for the car now? How does the car accelerate?
The timing device you seek may be on the tool loaner program. Have a look. This is the only way you will be satisfied I suspect. Otherwise you will always wonder.
Also not much sense in looking for other possible faults with the engine beforehand. Last but not least someone mentioned the pump could be installed 180 degrees out and engine still start and run.
For the time it takes I would make positive by somehow making sure when the valves are closed and damper is about tdc mark is when the injector actually sprays on number one. A simpler method would be to line up the cam and crank marks and verify you can see the notch in the pump. You can move the damper a little to compensate if the notch is not visible at all.
Can any site member quote what a 603 ran like with the injection pump 180 out? The 617 smokes a lot with little power I believe when it's pump is off that much. Also it starts different I think I remember.
One of the longest threads ever on this site dealt with this during a long chase for the problem on a 617. Yours is probably not this anyways. The fuel milage and acceleration would be way down if so. Also it would smoke a lot because of the loss of efficiency.

ok the car was running at 15deg ATDC, which means it was 15deg retarded, isnt it better for an engine to run always a little bit advanced?? at leats thats my understanding esp when the engine gets up to 3K rpm i know the pump has an internal advance and such. bu tback to the timing, today i turned the pump down to 6deg ATDC and it smokes less, runs smoother, but id like to advance it more maybe to 1deg ATDC. but im almost out of my adjustment range which would mean i would need to remove pump and install a whole nother click and recenter the pump to get more adjustment back. but car runs pretty decent as of now. what are you guys running as far as timing? is anyone running the cars any kind of deg BTDC which would be advanced?? just curious. the manual i have says go to 15deg ATDC and i disagree.

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1992 300D 289,000 miles, rims, spoliler

Don't confuse RIV with start of delivery. Although these timing points move together, the RIV spec in 60x manuals is an arbitrary reference between the IP poointer and the crank pulley. The RIV numbers have no bearing on actual start of delivery. Start of delivery spec is something like 24* BTDC which I assume corresponds to the IP pointer being centered in the reference port when the crank pulley indicates 14* ATDC.

If fuel squirted into the prechamber when the piston was on its way down, I doubt there would be sufficient pressure for combustion.

Sixto
87 300D

Have you checked chain stretch?

Sixto
87 300D

Sixto is correct. The RIV is a reference and should line up with the hole at 14* ATDC. Why the pump was designed this way I will never understand. I would set the timing using the RIV to 14* ATDC and go from there. My 91 runs good there and gets good mileage (32 mpg on the road) and will spin the rear tires starting off from a stand still. Not a lot, but you can hear them. With the timing correct, if it still doesn't run good or start good start looking for the problem else where.

Paul

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84 500 SEL (307,xxx miles)