Good luck with that.

Tell you what, if you can provide ONE case where 2-cycle oil has damaged a old diesel Benz in any way....(unlike straight ULSD has when first used), I'll say its a placebo, worthless, blah, blah, blah.....

But bear in mind, MERCEDES-BENZ, you know they guys that built these fantastic cars, has endorsed the use of it!.....maybe Dieter Zietche owns a 2-cycle oil company...who knows

__________________
2015 E250 Bluetec Black/designo Sand
2014 GLK250 Bluetec Iridium Silver/Almond
1999 E320 Sedan Bordeaux Red/ Parchment
1999 E270CDI Estate Black Opal/Black
1983 300SD Champagne/Palomino Leather
1982 300SD Silver Blue/ Pacific Blue Leather

On that note, if it does nothing for injectors, then why does MERCEDES-BENZ recommend using it after obtaining dirty fuel

__________________
2015 E250 Bluetec Black/designo Sand
2014 GLK250 Bluetec Iridium Silver/Almond
1999 E320 Sedan Bordeaux Red/ Parchment
1999 E270CDI Estate Black Opal/Black
1983 300SD Champagne/Palomino Leather
1982 300SD Silver Blue/ Pacific Blue Leather

I doubt it will do any damage, I also doubt it will do much good. If your injectors are nailing, you should probably spend you time and money on the injectors, not a fuel additive.

I currently have about 80K miles on straight ULSD, no problems and no nailing. Even if the additive costs $0.25 per tankful, I've probably saved $1000 (edit: make that about $100), so far.

Do they recommend it for constant use, or as a one-treatment for injectors that have been contaminated with dirty fuel?

Whatever ULSD is, it's certainly not dirty compared to old diesel fuel. I doubt that fuel contamination is your problem.

BTW, MB also specifically says that additives are not required for ULSD. I would probably just have the injectors serviced/replaced.

The ULSD have to conform to ASTM D6079 High
Frequency Reciprocating test.The limit is 520micron scar...according to this document,it`s not enough IMO:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf
Seems like acc.to Bosch experts the upper limit should not exceed .450 How come???
Bosch have issued a document long ago,and although the rotary pumps and CR pumps are most affected,it says:
Bei stark wasserstoffbehandeltem
Kraftstoff können auch bei Reihenpumpen
Schäden auftreten...
http://aa.bosch.de/aa/de/Berufsschulinfo/media/diesel-rgb.pdf

Is there a strict control on fuel lubricity properties and how one can be sure the companies adhere to the (otherwise still) non-sufficient limit of 520??

More:
When testing fuels via HFRR, Europe's EN590 standard favors a 460 maximum wear scar diameter, whereas the World-Wide Fuel Charter (favored by automakers) recommends an even stricter 400 wear-scar maximum (see Diesel Fuel News 4/10/200, [p.sup.3]; 1/24/2000, [p.sup.7]). Bosch is a leading advocate of extra-tough standards.
CAnada:
A: All diesel fuel, including ULSD, needs to meet the lubricity specifications defined in the Canadian General Standards Board CAN/CGSB-3.517. The lubricity specification can be met based on any one of five test methods, including the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR) test (D 6079) which requires a wear scar no larger than 460 microns (which is more stringent than the ASTM D975 specification of 520 micron....
Any comment on that?

Sure, my current IP may have to be replaced after another 250K miles, instead of another 300K miles, if all the ULSD I run between now and then is at the absolute minimum ASTM limit (all design standards are compromises). I can live with that (I will probably install a new long block sometime in the next 200K miles anyway). I will probably spend $10K on other maintenance/repairs long before ULSD affects anything, it's just not an issue.

I fail to see how 2 cycle oil can affect the injectors in any way. These engines don't even really have injectors, they are nozzels. There are no moving parts like on true injectors.

Nailing usualy means you have an injector thats pissing, and you should fix that before it melts a hole in the pre chamber. If you are getting nailing from more than one cylinder I would check all the injectors, and the timing.

Also are you sure its nailing? Take a hammer and smack your valve cover, thats about how it sounds.

I have never had a additive do anything for me. I ran "diesel purge" through the SD, and it came out as clear as it went in, and I know that car had so so nozzels. Trans X did jack, maybe slowed the leak down a bit hard to tell, PS supposidy stops gelling. I will say I have never had that problem, and I use PS in the winter so maybe that one does work.

I'm a firm beliver in fixing the actual problem, rather than trying to use snake oils. You also have to watch the placibo affect, it can be rather strong. More so when people want to beleive its working.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

If 2-cycle oil does nothing for the fuel system, then why does Mercedes-Benz recommend it?

Truthfully, the car may not have been "nailing" per say, but it was rather loud at idle....as a diesel shoud be....this quietened it down a bit....if it does nothing else but that, I'm cool with it!

I sincerely doubt this is a placebo effect in that I have driven this car everyday and I am very skeptical about any type of additive....it has quietened down.....

A lot of people love referring to snake oil for some reason...... As I've said if it lubricates as well as 2-cycle oil, where do I get it

__________________
2015 E250 Bluetec Black/designo Sand
2014 GLK250 Bluetec Iridium Silver/Almond
1999 E320 Sedan Bordeaux Red/ Parchment
1999 E270CDI Estate Black Opal/Black
1983 300SD Champagne/Palomino Leather
1982 300SD Silver Blue/ Pacific Blue Leather

Where does MB recomend it? I have never seen a TSB recomending 2 cycle oil in any MB engine.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I thought the main purpose of this forum is to share info with others & help when somebody needs it, not to bludgeon others into accepting what you believe. There's plenty of research & evidence out there for those who choose to do their homework. For the rest, I guess what they say is true "ignorance is bliss". Having built endurance race engines (Daytona 24 hr, Sebring 12 hr etc) I can tell you that once wear starts it progresses at an exponentail rate. The more you can minimize the "wear scar" the longer you can prolong the inevideble. Once that scar is established it's just a matter of time. tic...tic...tic

__________________
82 300SD 202K
82 300SD 233K
83 300TD 340K
82 300TD 98k euro (parts on the hoof)
85 300TD 282K
83 300TD 197K

I would also be interested in seeing that reference, I would like to know under what specific conditions they recommend any additive. AKIK, their position is that these engines will run ULSD without any additives. I'm I incorrect?

Here we go....

URL: http://www.whnet.com/4x4/diesel_2.html


To save you the time here's the article that can be found near the bottom:

Recommended diesel fuel additive: Liqui Moly 1052
Some Mercedes-Benz diesel engine engineers recommend to add some two cycle oil to the diesel fuel, in case the engine runs a bit rough due to a batch or so of poor diesel fuel quality in remote areas. In this connection Liqui Moly 1052 is usually mentioned. It reportedly burns clean, better than the diesel fuel itself, and can also be used on diesel engines fitted with particulate filter.


I would like to see information where Mercedes states that the use of ULSD is approved with no additives in the OLD engines...

__________________
2015 E250 Bluetec Black/designo Sand
2014 GLK250 Bluetec Iridium Silver/Almond
1999 E320 Sedan Bordeaux Red/ Parchment
1999 E270CDI Estate Black Opal/Black
1983 300SD Champagne/Palomino Leather
1982 300SD Silver Blue/ Pacific Blue Leather

BTW, this is my last post on this thread. I had no intention of sparking any argument on this subject, just to provide someone with information on a topic I have seen posted here before.....Its actually kinda absurd, but anyway.....

__________________
2015 E250 Bluetec Black/designo Sand
2014 GLK250 Bluetec Iridium Silver/Almond
1999 E320 Sedan Bordeaux Red/ Parchment
1999 E270CDI Estate Black Opal/Black
1983 300SD Champagne/Palomino Leather
1982 300SD Silver Blue/ Pacific Blue Leather

Thanks for the info; it does appear that this recommendation is for occasional use, but based on the recommendation I would not it expect it to do any damage.

When nhdoc asked about using ULSD in older engines, he recieved the following response from MB:

Thank you for your recent e-mail to the Mercedes-Benz Customer Assistance
Center.

The "Low-Sulfur" fuel will not negatively affect your vehicle, nor will any
additives be required for you to use. If you have further questions
regarding this matter, please speak with our Technical Advisors at 1 (800)
367-6372.

We hope this information is useful. Best wishes for future safe and
pleasant driving.

Sincerely,
Christine Dingler
Customer Relations Liaison
1-800-FOR-MERCedes x6361
www.MBUSA.com