i went to change my timing chain, did it as per my Bentley manual, which was the same method as Haynes. then brought my engine to TDC using the crankshaft pulley. then when i looked at the camshaft markings, it was retarded near 90 degrees (1/4 turn of the camshaft). so i figured no big deal, since the engine is at TDC, i can open the chain back up (master link was in top)and rotate the cam till its markings line up. so i re linked the master link, tried to rotate the engine, and it won't rotate. the pistons are not hitting the valves. so i messed that up. so now i put the cam marking at the other side of the cam block, completely opposite of the marking since TDC occurs twice a cycle. same thing happens. so the last thing i did was try to find which piston is at TDC when the markings say TDC, this would tell me which cycle number 1 is on, power or intake. and thats where i am at.

if anyone can help me out with this predicament it would be greatly appreciated

thanks
Dan

There are two top dead centres in one complete operating cycle as you seem to know. Only the number one cylinder is indicated by the crankshaft mark. Thats also all you need. Sounds like you now need a friend to help out. You do not have to find top dead centre other than with the mark on the crank pulley.
The injection pump cycle is timed in this loop too. I think you know this. You do have the glow plugs or injectors out from when you threaded a new chain in? Car out oif gear? Otherwise not possible to thread a new chain in my opinion without a long bar on the crank nut. I hope you did not do that.
You still should be able to remove the master link and put the cam mark in line with the bottom pulley on it's mark. Maybe not though if you have turned the engine enough for the link to dissapear.
Post any more questions you have if still confused about anything. Worse possible senario is you have to remove all the valve activators so all valves remain closed when rotating the engine or cam. Although the only way you could have got that far in my opinion would have been excess force when installing the chain. I do not think you could get that much force going by hand. You did pull through the chain by hand? In fact keep posting any questions till it is all clear in your mind. Draw a picture on paper if it helps you as well. Whatever works for you.
Reflecting on all this in my mind. The best approach for you is to probably remove the valve rockers . Number each rocker as they must go back it the same position they were removed from. If engine seems jammed at present This is the way to go in my opinion. You can worry about checking the injection pump timing later. What really concerns me is you managinmg to get the cam half a revolution out without major interference. I did not think it was possible on these engines.

no i didn't use any force when installing the new chain, i linked the two together with a master and rotated the engine around. yeah the injectors are out. and i'm not worried about the injector pump timing UNLESS it would cause interference, and locking up of the engine. i'll go try the methods you said, hopefully it will get my timing back on track. im also using my other 300d 617 engine as a reference, for proper timing.

thanks for your help
Dan

Great that you did not really force it. I am a bit at a loss to figure still how you could get that cam off so much without serious interference. Hydralic valve lifters might allow it but you do not have them. This is a serious interference engine.
Cam off half a turn could easily have the engine jammed up in my opinion. From your description it is all it could be. Guess it's pull the rockers time. I doubt there is enough valve adjustment range to keep those valves closed. You might be able to selectivly pull only certain rockers if you observe correctly. As soon as you get the cam and cranlk back into correct position. Injectors or glow plugs still out. Rockers still off. This is the time to do the injection pump timing check in my opinion. Make or buy a drip tube. With both number one cam lobes pointing upward at 45 degrees and balancer mark at the right reading you want start of injection. If you get it with cam mark pointing down. Remove link and move cam again 1/2 turn. This is predicated on the issue that injection pump to crank relationship has not been disturbed. If it has it is still the time to deal with it as well. But from your last post I believe you are ahead of me now. Your first post did not indicate that you knew what you were doing. I believe you do.

yeah i know exactly what you mean. however it was actually running like that, i only noticed it was way out of timing after i brought it back from the euro imports mechanic, the guy didn't fix it either. i'm concerned with it cause my 3 other diesel MBs are all timed properly. and it also didn't produce much power (even for a diesel)
all 3 manuals i have on MBs don't say anything about how to correct this timing, only the IP timing, and how to change the timing chain.

i think i will take of the oil pan reservoir, so i can visually see when number 1 is at TDC. then i can adjust the cam accordingly. i hope i will be able to get a deflection gauge in there.

its kinda puzzling.

thanks
Dan

Unless you suspect that the front crank pulley is not installed correctly and it is keyed on remember. There is no sense removing the oil pan to find top dead centre as it is marked on the pulley. First before even considering removing the pan try using the mark on the crank pulley. Sounds like a mechanic with problems to let this type of engine go out with timing problems. Its not exactly rocket science after all.

thats a great idea
lol yeah not a great mechanic. i'll remove the rad and cehck out the pulley. see if its still on track or if the key came loose or fell out somehow, stranger things have happened.
thanks man

Dan

Okay I get your drift as you suspect the crank pully is loose or somehow not right. Possibility I guess. Inspection of that is probably the better approach.
I would be concerned about trying to find the true top dead centre by measuring the pistons location. There is a dead zone there as the rod passes through the top of the crank that might be subject to some interpretation. Rocking comparison with a dial gauge should catch and identify top dead centre though.
Keys on that pulley can destruct from what I understand. Or holes elongate perhaps. Maybe removal and checking it is a bettter ideal. Use locktight medium on reinstallation.
Since you are concerned with the pulley mark and true top dead centre being quite different. Plus I hate disturbing things like the crank pulley on many types of engines. I would pull the rockers. Pull # 1 injector. Fill the cylinder before it is near indicated top dead centre with oil. Turn the engine. If the oil stops flowing out as you get to top dead centre as indicated by the mark. One could assume it is on or close enough.
I guess I am just lazy. You would have to pay attention but I do not see why this would not work. I really do not like suggesting things I have not done myself.
Another test although how accurate I am unsure of is to put the crank mark on and apply air to the #1 cylinder If there is a signifigant difference between the pully mark and # 1 top dead centre the engine will rotate as the piston is pushed down. The mark would have to be almost 180 degrees off for the engine not to rotate unless the mark and top dead centre are right. The piston otherwise then would be at bottom dead centre.
Remember to spin the engine over with the starter to blow any residual oil out before putting the injector back in. If you do the oil thing that is. Going to leave to do some electrical wiring now. Will check your thread later this evening again. Best of luck in whatever approach you do. I am sure there are others more knowledgeable than me that will respond as well. It never pays to start me thinking by the way.

i thank you for all you help and info. the oil idea is a good one, helps get me thinking outside the box. but i think i'll try the pulley one first. i gotta go out of town for work the next few days. but i'll do what i can today and i'll pick up again on it later.

thanks again
Dan

No real help here more just some suggestions of approaches I might consider if in a simular situation to what you are.
Another one of my thoughts when pulling wires for house construction this afternoon.
Put crank pullly at tdc mark. Then fill the chamber with oil. It may take a few minutes to make sure it is full. Then as you rotate the engine one way and then back through tdc in the opposite direction the oil level should fall back a little. Then rise again as you approach tdc. Of course falling back as you get past tdc again. If it overflows or gets higher when you turn the crank back and forth then you know your bottom mark is off.
In fact when filling just bring the oil level up to a certain thread in the injector hole. I do not feel leakage past the rings is a signifigant factor in the short time this test takes.
Also this test is pretty accurate because of the large displacement area of the piston being reflected in the much smaller injector hole diameter. A simple 20X maginification? Or more? Just take it for what it is worth.
Sometime ago there was another gentleman posting that wanted to verify the crank pulley mark for tdc. Too bad I was not thinking that day or lucky for him I was not perhaps. If I remember he did not get an easy approach to his dilema.
This should become the standard test for any suspicions about the accuracy of the crank pulley mark and tdc in my opinion. Better than pulling the pre chamber at least and concievably still more accurate.
If the crank pully is tight testing with the oil first is easier than pulling the rad etc to get at the pulley. Even once there if pulley is still tight you have to test somehow or other for your suspicions. Removal of the pulley to check the keyways or whatever is again not a good ideal unless you know it is off. Some of these pullies are better left undisturbed unless required . This engine is one of them in my opinion.
I really like easy testing approaches that are fast, cheap, pretty conclusive and meet the need well enough to be of use. Any thoughts out there?