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#1
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pushed in cylinder sleeve, how long till another blown head gasket?
Short version:
#4 sleeve on a 260,000 mile OMM617.951 is pushed 14 thousandths too far into the block. It has been this way for at least 3,500 miles but eventually an unfortunate major overheating caused the head gasket to blow around it. Milling the head down would leave the piston overlap at .042", which is 7 thousandths over the MB tolerance. Options are: A: Replace head gasket for an additional $590 and hope it lasts for a long time. B: New engine for around $1000 (seems the best to me, although there are some ifs involved) C: Mill down block as much as possible and cut the gap to 7 thousandths and new head gasket. Don't know how much this would cost. What do you guys think? Longer Version: I have a 1984 300SD with 260,000 miles. Not that long ago I was driving it and the engine temperature gauge stopped working. I didn't thing too much of it but a few hundred miles later the thermostat stuck and it started overheating. I didn't know this was happening till the coolant hose broke and it started smelling like burning coolant in the car. long story short, massively overheated and the head gasket ended up blown. I took it to a shop and they tore into it. They discovered a relatively new head gasket, although how new he wasn't sure. I had put at least 3,500 mile on it is all I know. They also discovered that the #4 piston sleeve was pushed in to the block 0.014" too far. Apparently in a past life this sleeve had been installed incorrectly, or somehow pushed in by something else. My mechanic and I couldn't really figure out how that could have happened. Getting the top resurfaced down 14 thousandths so that the sleeve is flush again will put the piston overlap 7 thousandths over MB's specified range of acceptable values so that isn't really an option. I'm $300 into the head gasket replacement already. My options are below: 1: continue with the head gasket for another $590 and hope for the best. Who knows how long it would last without overheating the engine again? 2: I may have a line on another engine for $1100 with 100,000 miles less on it then mine. I could then possibly sell my current engine's turbo and manifold locally for at least $300 and install the new engine. This seems like my best option, and I may be able to find someone who could help me install it myself thereby saving shop time. This seems like the best option 3: Mill the block down 7 thousandths for who knows how much more money and do #1 Anyone have any experience with this? What do you think I should do? Last edited by jparker164; 05-19-2008 at 04:38 PM. |
#2
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Is it not possible to pull and replace the sleeve? Just a thought...
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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown |
#3
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Have you given any thought to replacing the liner on that cylinder?
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#4
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HAHA - beat you to it!
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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown |
#5
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What you are describing will require pulling the motor anyway, so the only logical thing is to replace the sleeve and mill it flush as it was supposed to be in the first place.
I don't know how you would do this without working at it. The ring is cut on the bottom of the bore at the factory to stop the sleeve from going too deep and the sleeves are a little too long so you have to push them in and then deck the block so they are all exactly flush with the block. It is probably cheaper to buy a used motor but this one should have all new parts in it right? If so it should be worth fixing. The person who put in the sleeve wrong should be paying for the fix. Good luck. Tom W
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#6
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Quote:
__________________
1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown |
#7
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That sounds possible but....
I don't see how the sleeve could walk down the bore. Maybe someone can say if thats possible or not. Tom W
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#8
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Quote:
I guess this means it was rebuilt, which would have been good news to me if not for the other thing. . . Seems unlikely that it would slip down, but maybe the extreme temperatures of me overheating it and a CTE mismatch allowed this to happen? Can't really come up with any other explanation except for the sleeve being way too short in the first place. |
#9
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couldn't you try to freeze the sleeve with liquid nitrogen to shrink it then try to pull it up to place. Its worth a try if you are going to have to rebuild it anyways. Just make sure the piston is at BDC and then pore the liquid nitrogen in, the sleeve should shrink and you should be able to move it. If the shrinks to much and gets stuck to the piston then turn the engine and the sleeve should move up. This sounds like a possible solution. I am not 100% sure whether it will work but its at least worth a shot.
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#10
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for my money, I'd put in a new sleeve, and have it correctly pressed in all the way to the stop, and properly milled flush with the deck.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#11
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yep.
And while its apart I would have the clearance on the bearings checked. It sounds as if it was built by someone who didn't know what they're doing. If the work was done before you got the car you will probably have a tough time collecting anything from the offending party, no matter how right that might be. Tom W
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#12
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__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#13
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Always a good feeling when you float an idea and someone who knows more than you seconds it
__________________
1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel Silver blue paint over navy blue interior 2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise 99% original unmolested car ~210k miles on the clock 1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion 152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown |
#14
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replace head gasket for an additional $590 and hope it lasts for a long time.
Uh... 590$?!> what is it made out of spotted owl?
__________________
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself. George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..) 1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won. pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt. |
#15
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Quote:
Getting a new sleeve installed and milled would cost a lot more then the replacement engine and installation. |
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