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"Sweet spot" challenge. Best of multiple worlds?
Alright, I've got it in my mind to come up with and implement the best mix of Mercedes-Benz diesel and automotive technology to come up with a reliable, (relatively) high output, economical (within reason) Mercedes-Benz capable of running 100% homebrew biodiesel (fully mechanical engine) all housed in a classic 123 chassis without spending arm+leg to get it done.
Goal: 250-400HP, mechanically injected (Myna mod is obvious here) ~2,000 - 2,500RPM @ 75MPH - dependent on the power band of the engine 30MPG +/- 5MPG 5 or greater speed transmission Got some ideas, but I need some help. I'm thinking: - 606 w/ 603 Myna'd injection pump. Or a 603 w/ 606 head (I think I read that is possible) - VNT turbocharger w/Front Mount Inter Cooler - Five speed a must- manual or auto, what models mate to the 60x engines? Manual preferred! - Rear end ratio in the 2.50's or lower? - Fabrication is fine so long as it will "kinda" "sorta" fit, maybe needing new diff mounts Drop any suggestions all you want, input is good. If you know of a part/application please share. If you have the part number it would be even better. Stats would also be nice. Ratios, specs, etc.
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Vehicles: 2002 SLK 230 Gone but not forgotten: 1983 300D 1981 El Camino 'OILBRNR' - 6.2L diesel OM617 powered '86 F150 1984 BMW 524td 2001 VW Beetle TDI 1994 Sunurban 4x4 6.5L diesel |
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That takes the "without spending arm+leg to get it done" part out of the question. That alone you are looking to spend at least $2800.
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97-99 606's already come with a 5spd gearbox. Manual's ought to be avail in Europe.
The 606's 10% mpg (read hp) loss buring Bio means you are already in a hole.
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Terry Allison N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama 09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA) 09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.) |
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I have seen pics of a 606 in a W123, so I know that part can be done. A 2.88 diff and overdrive should get you about the cruise rpm you want. Your goals sound reasonable, and while more expensive than what most of us are used to spending on our cars, you will probably end up going faster for cheaper than the Powerstroke, Cummins, and Duramax guys.
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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar. 83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles 08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles 88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress. |
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spend some time lightening the body of the car as well that will help tremendiously.
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Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself. George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..) 1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won. pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt. |
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Mauri (I'm fairly sure its him, I'll check on that later) in Finland is selling a pre-built Superturbo 400hp+ OM606 for around $12,000 +shipping.
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Thanks for the feedback.
My definition of an arm and a leg is approx. what a W210 E300 (turbo model) can be purchased for every other day of the week: $10k The ~2-3,000 on the Myna is a given , and well worth it. That figure, however, includes a full restoration + upgrades. Body work, paint, AMG rims, W211 or 10 interior components (seats, partial dash, steering wheel w/full functionality), dynamat inside and out. Classic look, new car feel. There is absolutely no reason this car needs to weigh as much as it does, so weight reduction is on the list. IMO a Mercedes-Benz produced 20+ years ago has just as much class and aesthetic appeal - if not more - as one that rolls off the assembly line today. All that has changed is driveability comfort and economy. If I can build up a turbodiesel sedan with all the amenities of a vehicle produced in the last 10 years for the price of a 97-99 E300 and still have more power, rebuilt (read "new" - 0 miles) engine, along with fresh paint and interior? Why not? Sure beats $10-12k for a E300 that already has 150-200k on the clock, on the low end of $10K are the non-turbo models. Top that with the fact that a mint/restored condition W123 300D can sell for as much as a E300? Again, why not?
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Vehicles: 2002 SLK 230 Gone but not forgotten: 1983 300D 1981 El Camino 'OILBRNR' - 6.2L diesel OM617 powered '86 F150 1984 BMW 524td 2001 VW Beetle TDI 1994 Sunurban 4x4 6.5L diesel |
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what can be done to lighten the 123? it's unibody already, so it's pretty light in the body. I suppose holes could be drilled. the front seats are heavy due to all the springs, they could go and put in some plastic framed ones... with foam. the steel calipers have some heft to them, you could replace them with aluminum aftermarket binders... lets see... pull the springs and substitute in some coil over shocks... and we're done... what else can be removed? glass?
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
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Quote:
Thats about 4-450 pounds that you can remove. lowering the vehicles weight down to about 3800 pounds with the driver, thats a huge upgrade considering that every 100 pounds you take out, you give your vehicle about 10 hp.
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Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself. George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..) 1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won. pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt. Last edited by Cervan; 07-25-2008 at 09:23 AM. |
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ahh, well, yes I am sure all that would lighten the car, but I think that's a bit beyond "the sweet spot" in terms of keeping the car useful.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
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Ditch the 123
My 2 cents - forget about the W123 body shell. The aerodynamics stink.
Stay with the W124 body, set it up for manual climate control, manual seats, manual windows, manual transmission. The 603 engine can achieve the 250 min HP you are looking for. Build it. Drive it and enjoy it. SteveM.
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'93 190E/D 2.5 Turbodiesel 5-speed (daily driver) '87 190D 2.5 Turbo rustbucket - parts car '84 Dodge Rampage diesel - Land Speed Record Holder '13 Ram 2500 Diesel '05 Toyota 4Runner |
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Whoa whoa. Let's not get too crazy here.
Lighter AMG rims, drilled/slotted rotors, coilovers, and W210/211 seats front and back are what I had in mind. Or I may just have my seats redone in memory foam. Carbon fiber hood/trunk lid (painted of course, no rice please!) and maybe if I get crazy(er), front fenders and door skins. My first thought is that if I rip out all of the old 1983 insulation in the vehicle I'll drop the weight a good 30-50 pounds. Any steel I can replace with aluminum I probably will. If I can find the fiberglass body kit used on a AMG W123s to delete the bumpers I'll jump on that as well. Another thought I had was, would the weight of a skid pan make up for itself in aerodynamics?
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Vehicles: 2002 SLK 230 Gone but not forgotten: 1983 300D 1981 El Camino 'OILBRNR' - 6.2L diesel OM617 powered '86 F150 1984 BMW 524td 2001 VW Beetle TDI 1994 Sunurban 4x4 6.5L diesel |
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__________________
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself. George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..) 1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won. pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt. |
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a skid pad... I always wanted to put an entire plate under a car. completely remove any underbody air drag. total front to back... I can get 5x10 sheets of aluminum... (gosh they must be pricey nowadays...) I was thinking of setting one under a car and seeing how much of the stationary underbody I could cover.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
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Quote:
__________________
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself. George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..) 1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won. pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt. |
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